A seemingly intelligent friend insists that a. those young Mormons proselytizers who come knocking on your door are told to lie about their faith and anything else in order to convert you, and b., that Mormons are not Christians. I am fairly certain he is nuts, but cannot find anyone willing to set the record straight. True or not?
Chris
St. Louis MO
Determining who “qualifies” as a Christian and who does not is a matter of opinion. Believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ is a necessary but not sufficient condition. Some fundamentalist Protestant sects don’t even consider Roman Catholics to be Christians, much less Mormons.
AFAIK, Mormons consider themselves to be Christians but some other Christian sects (not all) disagree.
Are we told to lie when we knock on your door? No, of course not. But we certainly present the rosiest picture possible, simplified, sanitized, focus-groupified.
You’re not going to hear about polygamy, black people, or Joseph Smith’s sex life from Mormon missionaries. It’s not in the playbook. Hell, half the missionaries probably don’t know much about these things either.
I suppose you could call them lies of omission, since I definitely think people should know about the true history of any organization they’re being recruited to. True history and Mormonism don’t mix much.
Back when I was a Mormon Missionary (I’m neither any more) we were never instructed to lie, quite the opposite. I and the others sincerely believed what we were saying. I presume that is still the case. There were some uncomfortable truths we tried very hard not to mention. But even then we would have discussed it if for no other reason than to quote the current church leaders about how abhorrent polygamy is or how we loved all god’s children regardless of skin tone, and all were welcome in the church.
And as a Mormon I always thought I was a Christian. And even after having left the faith I still think they are Christians. But obviously some other churches disagree. In my view the Mormons are plenty Christian.
My experience with the LDS (mormons) who come knocking is that they’re sincere. In fact, I’ve found them to be the most considerate of the multitude of proselytizers that come by - we live near a number of christian churches that do the door to door. I ask them all not to come back & the LDS are the only bunch that will respect that - at least for a year or two. The rest seem to take my words as a challenge and show up more.
I think they’re about average in ignorance over church history & policy.
I must take offense on the simple wording of the subject header of the OP.
A Christian, of all people, should be aware of Martin Luther’s second most influential work, *On the Jews and their Lies*. Savory quotes include that the Jews are “full of the devil’s feces … which they wallow in like swine,” for all synagogues and Jewish homes to be burned down, rabbis to be executed, and for all Jews to be enslaved.
Aside from that he founded Protestantism.
My point is just to be careful about cultural memory of language, and avoid modified limited hangouts to find a final solution to such questions.
This reply came out stronger than intended, and obviously the OP’s choice of words was inadvertent and w/o malice. But words can be echoes.
Leo
I’m another former-Mormon former-Missionary. This is my experience exactly.
What about the magical underpants?
You don’t have to look very hard for Mormons who are less than candid with their truths. Ask hard questions, and get a response of “shrug.” It pretty funny to watch people deny what are considered sacred truths. Mormons on this board deny fundamental teachings by Joseph Smith as pure speculation by someone who got carried away. I’m too busy taking care of my kids to search for who did that, but there have been treads about this in the past.
I was a Mormon living around Mormons as a kid. My parents were the non-magical underpants variety. When I was 17, I wore a plain white t-shirt to work on a constuction site, and my boss was appalled because he thought I was wearing my dad’s “temple garment”. I had no idea what he was talking about. Mormons don’t discuss it around non-Mormons or non-“Endowed” Mormons.
If you ask a Mormon about “the garment”, he will probably make some vague statement that it is too sacred or personal to discuss, and compare the magic underwear to other symbolic garments worn by the clergy in other faiths. No lying there, except that “sacred and personal” is a euphemism for “secret and evasive” or perhaps “none of your fuggin business”.
This has not been my experience. I have been friends with many LDS folks in regular work and life situations. I have found that for many of them, when asked in a friendly way (non-judgemental, antagonistic) about curious aspects of Mormonism they will gladly explain.
No it isn’t. There were and are a number of branches of Christianity which do not hold the doctrine that Jesus is divine. The issue was not resolved theologically in the early church until 451 CE, but even since then a number of smaller sects have continued to maintain, or have revived, the idea that Jesus was fully mortal, or had some spiritual status above men but below God.
You’re lucky. My dad would sit on the couch watching TV in nothing but his one-pieces. That’s an image I wouldn’t mind erasing.
Yeah, but did they ever let you try them on? 
On purpose, I suppose? Otherwise you’ve made an interesting hybrid of Godwin and Gaudere.
The official role of the missionaries is to teach & baptize. Their ‘field-guide’, if you will, is publicly available on the LDS site - Preach My Gospel. If you want to know what the church is telling their kids to say, you can start there.
Of course, “none of your business” is a valid answer for anyone asked about what underwear they wear, even if the garments in question have no spiritual significance.
Hmmm? A “Christian” would be one who follows what they believe Jesus’ message was. The Romans made no distinction, they nailed them all up,or threw them all to the lions. The fact that when one branch of the church got to power, some of the losing sides of the argument ended up being “eliminated” does not make them more wrong, just losers. The Bible (the set of books approved by the pope and his council) is only the approved message of Jesus for those who believe it is. Others may have different views and interpretations.
While I consider myself atheist, I do have respect for people who sincerely put themselves out for their beliefs - whether it’s giving up foods, wearing odd clothes or headgear, or spending a time working for the church or the poor. Of course, the key issue is motivation - sincerity, sheepishness, fear of rejection or ostracization? - We can’t know for sure others’ motives. Still it’s better than, say, the Baptists in Jimmy Carter’s old church, who claimed to be Christian but did not allow black church members. One assumes “christian” should at its fundamental level mean adhering to the basic enets of his preachings…
Plus, I have trouble imagining anyone accepting a mission where they feel deceit is acceptable practice when trying to convert someone to a religion. I do know that when I was helping with political canvassing, we were advised not to get too deep into discussions with people at the door since (a) we were not spokesmen for the candidate (b) we did not necessarily know the issue or the platform in depth enough (c) they did not want us to promise or push positions (our personal ones?) that could be at odds with the platform and (d) for embarassing questions, leave it up to the candidate or his spokesman to produce the appropriate response. I assume there are similar instructions to the missionaries about the proper missionary position. 
Not sure why polygamy would be such a bad thing, considering it’s still legal in a large part of the world. It’s just somewhat counter to our culture and tradition. Oh, wait, so is gay marriage but it’s gaining acceptance.
Now I have to go google Smith and his sex life; I’ve heard Brigham Young had 27 wives, but I have never heard suggestions Smith had “issues”.
I agree completely and have reported the thread.
When I took a Cults in America class in college we were told that Jehovah’s Witnesses are told to lie about certain aspects of their theology to avoid turning off potential converts. Some people may have gotten the two religions mixed up.
Joseph Smith claimed before he founded mormonism that he say of vision of God and Jesus and asked which sect of Christianity to join. He says God told him all of the sects were wrong and their creeds were an abomination in his sight. This was why he founded the religion. So if Mormonism is Christian, then all of the other churches are not Christian, since none of the the other churches have changed their beliefs to be closer to Mormonism.
It is not a matter of controversy to say that Christians are not Jews despite the fact that Christians believe in many of the same things as Jews. The relationship between Mormonism and Christianity is similar.