Mormons getting their own planet come Judgement Day? Can someone elaborate on this?

[TokyoBayer]

Someone pointed out the difference between Mormon heaven and hell. Heaven is unlimited sex with all your wives in order to populate your world with all the spirits. Hell is being pregnant for an eternity.

Ooops, they’re both supposed to be heaven; it’s just that heaven for Mormon women is hell.

[kaylasdad99]

@Skammer

I already complain when my boss adds more people reporting to me. No way do I want a whole freakin’ planet.

To tell you the truth, I was thinking along those lines when I posted the question.

Many thanks to all for the very informative (if sometimes bewildering) answers.

[Drunky_Smurf]

Thanks very much to Rhodes and Bartman. I know I could have googled but I figured since real life Mormons were already posting in this thread I thought it’d be nice to hear it from the horses mouth.

@gnoitall

How do you think God feels? Billions. Of. Direct. Reports.

That’s why he has all those secretar…er, I mean angels for.

[TokyoBayer]

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Slavery%2C_Blacks%2C_and_the_priesthood

@Rhodes

Blood Atonement
Quick summary: According to Brigham Young, Jesus’s atonement can only go so far with some people. In order for some sins to be forgiven, the sinner’s blood must spill on the ground. This includes murderers, apostates, miscegenators, and some adulterers. When Jesus taught “love thy enemy”, he meant that we should love the church’s enemies sufficiently to slice their throats so that they may be forgiven.

Reading that article and then some of the links, it reminds me of how nuts Young was. Crazy. Calling for people to have their heads cut off for fathering a child with a black.

@A Really Crazy

In the priesthood I will tell you what it will do. Where the children of God to mingle there seed with the seed of Cain it would not only bring the curse of being deprived of the power of the priesthood upon themselves but they entail it upon their children after them, and they cannot get rid of it. If a man in an unguarded moment should commit such a transgression, if he would walk up and say cut off my head, and kill man woman and child it would do a great deal towards atoning for the sin. Would this be to curse them? no it would be a blessing to them. — it would do them good that they might be saved with their Bren. A man would shudder should they here us take about killing folk, but it is one of the greatest blessings to some to kill them, although the true principles of it are not understood.

Nuts, just nuts.

[Morgenstern]

@Untoward_Parable

Ya Mormons are kind of like Scientology and Christianity combined, just don’t tell them that, it pisses them off.

What exactly do Mormon’s have in common with Scientology? I’m curious.

[Troppus]

@Morgenstern

What exactly do Mormon’s have in common with Scientology? I’m curious.

I’m not U_P, but I have the same impression. Heavenly planets, magic scry hats, garments which imbue the wearer with power to ward off mortal desires, the ability to transmute souls of the deceased, the promise of becoming gods…that’s some sci-fi stuff right there. And it’s a new religion, incorporated, promises success if sufficient donations are made.

[eschereal]

@Morgenstern

What exactly do Mormon’s have in common with Scientology? I’m curious.

They were both founded by a guy who saw religion as a path to wealth and ease?

[Morgenstern]

@Troppus

I’m not U_P, but I have the same impression. Heavenly planets, magic scry hats, garments which imbue the wearer with power to ward off mortal desires, the ability to transmute souls of the deceased, the promise of becoming gods…that’s some sci-fi stuff right there. And it’s a new religion, incorporated, promises success if sufficient donations are made.

Please tell me more about:

Heavenly planets.
Magic hats.
The ability to ward off mortal disease by wearing special clothing.
The ability to transmute souls.
The promise of becoming gods.
Any promise with respect to donating to the Mormon church to guaranty success.

Thank you.

[April_R]

I won’t even comment on this thread because just reading the first few posts was getting me a bit upset.
If any of you really want to know and not just conjecture or make false assumptions, go here.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

or Contact Us | ComeUntoChrist

you can directly connect with a Church member who is happy to answer your honest inquires in the latter link.

Please, if this is just another speculation thread about Mormons by a bunch of people who know little to nothing about the Church or who are dead set on wild speculation and false rumor, I really think a MOD should send it to The Pit.

[Troppus]

@Morgenstern

Please tell me more about:

Heavenly planets.
Magic hats.
The ability to ward off mortal disease by wearing special clothing.
The ability to transmute souls.
The promise of becoming gods.
Any promise with respect to donating to the Mormon church to guaranty success.

Thank you.

“desires”, not “diseases”. And no, thank you. It’s been done to death here and in pop culture. There is no point in engaging in another barely civil debate about the origins, history, and principles of the Mormon faith. I answered the Scientology=Mormonism question. The Old and New testament version of Christian faith borrows heavily from classical mythology and has its share of spooky supernatural elements, too. Mormonism has disappearing encoded instructions and the corresponding decoder hat, a protective garment, post-death conversion, graduated rewards based on individual adherence to mortal requirements. Compared to older Christian tradition, Mormonism could be easily adapted to a sci-fi masterpiece. It has magical elements in the literary sense.

[Morgenstern]

Since you won’t defend your post, I’ll give it all the attention it deserve.

Thanks for responding.

[April_R]

I also caution against what an Ex-member of the Church has to say. Anyone who is ex anything will have a bias and negative slant towards the group they left because they left for a reason. They will try to turn others away as well. You have to be smart about were you get your information. You wouldn’t ask a man what it is like to be a woman, just like you wouldn’t ask an ex-member or a non-member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints what it is like to be a member. It doesn’t make any sense. And even as a member I don’t pretend to know or understand everything, just like a Doctor won’t know or understand everything there is to now about medicine. If you really want to know you consult the resources from the Church itself. They are there, they are transparent, and there are plenty of people willing to answer your questions truthfully and candidly.

Or you can keep looking up unauthorized or anti-Mormon resources and just believe what you want. I can’t do much about that.

[Marley23]

@April_R

Please, if this is just another speculation thread about Mormons by a bunch of people who know little to nothing about the Church or who are dead set on wild speculation and false rumor, I really think a MOD should send it to The Pit.

No, this is not a Pit thread. First off, several of the people commenting in the thread have identified themselves as former Mormons and there’s been some pretty well supported and detailed commentary here. Calling it “speculation” is inaccurate and rude. And second, while the Mormon establishment would also be a useful resources for someone interested in Mormonism, it’s not always going to be the best resource for a difficult and uncomfortable question.

@April_R

I also caution against what an Ex-member of the Church has to say. Anyone who is ex anything will have a bias and negative slant towards the group they left because they left for a reason. They will try to turn others away as well. You have to be smart about were you get your information.

That’s not necessarily true, and you’re engaging in a fallacy called poisoning the well. If you are able to argue against any points any poster has made, go ahead and do so. Saying “don’t trust them, they must have an axe to grind” doesn’t contribute anything.

[Troppus]

@Morgenstern

Since you won’t defend your post, I’ll give it all the attention it deserve.

Thanks for responding.

That suits me fine, but I’m curious about something. Since the origins, history, all the subsequent revisions and updates about Mormonism are readily available, why is any adherent surprised or perplexed by commonly held conceptions or misconceptions about the faith? After all, non-Mormons can read as well as Mormons. Or is there an imperative among the faithful to continually declare “We don’t think that way anymore.” or “Not all Mormons practice/believe/adhere to that anymore.”

It’s an awfully young belief system to have evolved and deviated from its original format, and that is a curious thing. Whence the surprise that cultures derived from a two thousand year old tradition have reservations about one a mere two hundred?

[April_R]

@Rhodes

Tell a Mormon that LDS doctrine endorses beer. Show it to them in their scripture, Doctrine & Covenants section 89. .

No it doesn’t

Stright from the scriptures word for word:

Section 89
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, 27 February 1833 (see History of the Church, 1:327–29). As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently, he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

1–9, The use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks is proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

1 A aWord of Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.

12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.

14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

Nowhere does it say, But beer is a-okay y’all.

How about being truthful and not spreading falsities, just admit you don’t really know what you are talking about. I love my neighbor, but I will also not sit back and smile when he says things untrue about me. I know I am setting myself up for some mean spirited attacks by many of you, but I am ok with that. I have dealt with this since I converted at 18. I will continue to point people to the correct primary resources and maybe a few will actually take the time to sincerely investigate the Church and not just make things up.

I have gone through my own period of doubt because I started listening to my friends and family who were non-Mormon or ex-Mormon and I had to sincerely pray, get on my knees, pour my soul out and find out for myself. I know that this Church is true, we do have a living prophet on the earth today, that my Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ love me and care about me, and that all else is incidental. I don’t need to know or understand any more than that to be faithful.
If I do all I can in this life to be the best disciple of Christ I can be, then whatever happens to me in the next life will be what I want and deserve. When you try to understand to speculate about deep doctrine without a willing heart and open mind you will fail to understand every time and continue to be confused. This is true for anything you try to learn about, not just religion.

If you sincerely want to know anything beyond what you hear from outside sources I suggest you pray about it. If you don’t you will never know the answer and never feel the Spirit. If you don’t want to really know, why bother even speculating about it? What good does it do you? What is the purpose? Does it fulfill your life anymore to put down or laugh at others and things you don’t understand? Are you really that empty as a person that you get joy from making other feel or look stupid without even bothering to really get to know them? I sincerely hope that some of you are better than that and really are genuinely interested and want to know more.

You can start with the two sites I have given you or you can also PM me and I would be happy to get you in touch with Church members in your area. It’s not hard. In fact, we welcome it.

****I copy and pasted that scripture reference from the Church website so when you see a letter that looks misplaced it is a cross reference that didn’t translate as a link when I pasted it, it doesn’t actually look like that in the scriptures themselves

[April_R]

@chappachula

true story: At my university town in the flatlands of America, there were a lot of Mormon missionaries. Once I was talking to the chief guy–a man about 30 who was in charge of organizing the missionaries.
I asked him about the Doctrine &Covenants , and a part of it that seemed contradictory. The D&C was originally created as notes taken during lectures by Mormon leaders. The chief missionary guy told me to ignore the D&C lecture notes, because they aren’t official.“After all” he told me with a straight face, “The author might of misunderstood something, or missed out on the context because he got up to go to the bathroom.”

That’s right folks, the chief missionary guy told me that somebody who went to the bathroom 150 years ago is the reason why I shouldn’t read the sacred Doctrines.

I think you either misunderstood or are taking his words out of context on purpose (either consciously or subconsciously) to fit your own bias. I have never heard this nor do I think this is true.

[April_R]

@Marley23

No, this is not a Pit thread. First off, several of the people commenting in the thread have identified themselves as former Mormons and there’s been some pretty well supported and detailed commentary here. Calling it “speculation” is inaccurate and rude. And second, while the Mormon establishment would also be a useful resources for someone interested in Mormonism, it’s not always going to be the best resource for a difficult and uncomfortable question.

That’s not necessarily true, and you’re engaging in a fallacy called poisoning the well. If you are able to argue against any points any poster has made, go ahead and do so. Saying “don’t trust them, they must have an axe to grind” doesn’t contribute anything.

It isn’t a fallacy that ex members of anything will present with a strong negative bias to any group they have left. I just suggested people take ex member’s commentary with caution, not that all they were going to say is false, but that it may be tainted with a built in bias. This applies to ex members of social organizations like the Boy Scouts, or ex members of families, or anything. I am not speculating on anything. I have pointed people to resources which are much more comprehensive than anything I could present on a forum. There is much too much to address, and as a mod I would think you understand how frustrating it would be for one person to address every single misconception or falsity contained in one thread. I offered people to PM me so I could point them to more comprehensive resources and set them up with face to face meetings with actual Members of the Church close to them. What more am I supposed to do?

and this whole thread is full of “poisoning the well” if you really want to get technical:

Poisoning the well can take the form of an (explicit or implied) argument, and is considered by some philosophers a logical fallacy.[1]

A poisoned-well “argument” has the following form:

1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false, relevant or irrelevant) about person A (the target) is presented by another. (e.g., "Before you listen to my opponent, may I remind you that he has been in jail.")
2. Implicit conclusion: "Therefore, any claims made by person A cannot be relied upon".

        A subcategory of this form is the application of an unfavorable attribute to any future opponents, in an attempt to discourage debate. (For example, "That's my stance on funding the public education system, and anyone who disagrees with me hates children.") Any person who steps forward to dispute the claim will then risk applying the tag to him or herself in the process.

A poisoned-well “argument” can also be in this form:

1. Unfavorable definitions (be it true or false) which prevent disagreement (or enforce affirmative position)
2. Any claims without first agreeing with above definitions are automatically dismissed. 

[Marley23]

@April_R

It isn’t a fallacy that ex members of anything will present with a strong negative bias to any group they have left.

It is fallacious and it’s not correct. If you have a factual rebuttal to anything anyone has posted, you can post it. If not, your “caution” consists of asserting that other posters can’t be trusted without any specific basis.

There is much too much to address

It’s not a very long thread and you were able to do it regarding beer.

@April_R

How about being truthful and not spreading falsities, just admit you don’t really know what you are talking about.

This is close to an accusation of lying, and we don’t allow that in this forum. If you believe a post is incorrect, argue with it but don’t make assertions about the motives of other posters.

[Simplicio]

@April_R

Nowhere does it say, But beer is a-okay y’all.

What is “barley for mild drinks” if not beer?

[Erdosain]

@Simplicio

What is “barley for mild drinks” if not beer?

Well, that’s exactly what it meant at the time. The prohibition of alcohol evolved very slowly over time. We know that even Joseph Smith indulged in hard alcohol from time to time.

AprilR, feel free to correct any misperceptions you think you find in this thread, but know that between Rhodes, Bartman, TokyoBayer, and me, we have logged many, many years sitting on uncomfortable pews in church, probably since before you even converted to Mormonism.

As a convert, you probably don’t want to delve too deeply into the actual historical facts of Mormonism without preparing yourself for some fairly unpleasant discoveries. All of us former Mormons are welcome to correction, if you have it. But frankly, after all these years online, the ground has been pretty well covered.