I would love to see a cite on that.
When I was active, the only member getting paid was the president, and that was a rather small amount. Of course, they may make money from other endeavors, such as writing books, etc. Temple presidents ARE NOT paid a salary for their efforts. I know that as I am personal friends with the past presidents of the San Diego and Los Angeles temples.
ETA. Reimbursement for expenses does not, in my opinion, count as getting paid.
My father received an allowance for “living expenses.” I fail to see how it was different from a salary, other than it was lower since housing, cars, education, insurance, medical expenses for the entire family were paid by the Mormon church.
Of course, cites are impossible since the Mormon church refuses to open its multi-billion dollar books. Mormons who would never dream of giving money to an organization who refused to disclose how it spends its money none the less give ten percent of their salary to what is effectively a black box.
Yes, housing and necessary expenses related to living in another location are provided. It’s not a salary, it’s based on need. (The Church is self insured. I think you missed that one too)
Yeah, fair enough. I was just surprised, briefly, that Catholicism seems a little more like Mormonism in this regard (that is, interested in who does the baptism) than Lutherans, but I suppose in retrospect that makes sense (in the sense that both Mormons and Catholics care about being ordained, etc.)
You’re probably right that it was an individual case basis for me.
Thanks! I wouldn’t say misled as much as I’d say (as Jophiel did) that people have various definitions of Christianity. I don’t think Mormonism does qualify as Christian under most Christian religions’ theological definitions (of course, real Mormons wouldn’t care about this, as they’d believe those very theological definitions would be corrupted, right?) – but it usually does qualify as Christian under man-in-the-street definition.
Honestly, the vast bulk of my interaction with Mormon clergy is on the ward (congregation) and stake (collection of congregation) level, and those guys are unpaid. So yeah, from where most of us are standing, it’s a simplification, but a fairly useful one.
Though point taken about the black box. That’s one thing that does annoy me. I didn’t actually realize the apostles got a stipend until I was in my 20’s or so (although I seem to remember it was my dad who told me in the end, so presumably this is widely known information and my parents just didn’t get around to telling me – which happened with a lot of things, both LDS and otherwise).
As far as I know, we didn’t have medical insurance. The Church just cut a check whenever we went to the doctor or dentist. But we did have church-paid car insurance. Anyway, I was simply listing all the things they pay for on top of the living expenses allowance. Housing, car, medical/dental, education. Not a lot of expenses left to cover after that.
If you set aside the whole “God of your own planet” beliefs of Mormonism, there is still a very critical difference between mainstream Christianity and the LDS church.
The LDS Church considers the Book of Mormon to be another testament of Jesus Christ, and it is given the same weight of authority as the Holy Bible.
The Book of Mormon details a second ministry on Earth besides the original ministry in Palestine that Christians believe. In the BOM, after Jesus leaves Palestine to ascend to Heaven, but BEFORE He actually arrives at the Pearly Gates, He makes a “detour” to the American continent. There, He conducts a Reader’s Digest Condensed version of the Palestinian ministry: Lord’s prayer, Sermon on the Mount, feeding the multitudes, Last Supper, etc etc. He THEN ascends to Heaven to sit at the Father’s right hand.
My sister, the wit, calls the American continent visitor, “Jesus Junior.”
When Mormons insist on calling themselves CHRISTIAN, people should ask them WHICH Jesus they believe in.
~VOW
Why would Mormon Jesus be any different from Original Recipe Jesus when the only thing he does in the Book of Mormon is give the exact same sermons as contained in the Bible? There are plenty of things to criticize about Mormonism, but plagiarizing the Bible, well it is one, but not for the reason you give.
The mormon Jesus is not God, IIRC. That’s a big difference from mainstream Xtianity.
Well, it gets complicated (on both sides). On the mainstream side, you have the near incoherence of the trinity doctrine. God so loved the world that he gave his son… which is actually himself… and he prayed to himself when he was Jesus. It sounds like a bad soap opera.
Mormons are wacky in their own way, as they believe “Jehovah” of the Old Testament is Jesus, and thus was God before he even had a body. And yet, for some reason we’re supposed to pray to God the Father (who Mormons identify as Elohim) in Jesus’ name even though Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. It gets thoroughly confusing.
Anyway, none of this is spelled out in the Book of Mormon, probably because Joseph Smith wrote the book way before he came up with all these new ideas. So, technically VOW and his oh-so-clever sister aren’t actually all that clever because Book of Mormon Jesus is identical to Bible Jesus because Joseph Smith ripped all his lines verbatim from the King James Version Bible.
You can say Mormon Jesus is different from mainstream Xtianity, but not Book of Mormon Jesus.
Here is a cite dated today from Businessweek. A few highlights:
Missionaries, mission presidents, and temple presidents get housing, transportation, medical expenses, and a stipend. The young missionaries are expected to pay their own way, but it’s not unusual for their home wards to pay the $10K. I had assumed that mission/temple presidents also had to pay the $10K, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they got a free ride. For retired people it’s probably a good deal. For people trying to manage a family business, I’ve heard it blows.
Wow, that’s a great article, Rhodes. Thanks for sharing it. I would never had guessed the prophet gets the same amount as a seventy. Figures that commie David O. McKay was behind it. 
But to clarify your last point, Mission Presidents don’t pay, they get paid an allowance. I assumed Temple Presidents did too, as I’ve seen some that weren’t very wealthy, but Morgenstern swears his friend doesn’t get paid. Maybe it’s means-tested, who knows.
I find it hilarious (from the article you linked) that the Mormon Church spent more on the new mall than they have on CHARITY over 25 freaking years! That’s so Mormon.
Jesus loses His originality aspect if you’ve got Him popping up all over the world giving re-runs of His Earthly ministry.
Did God intend for the Duplicate Jesus to be a BACKUP plan, just in case the early Christian Church screwed up? How FORTUNATE the backup plan was in place, for Joseph Smith to create the Restored Church!
Jesus told His followers that He was “returning to the Father.” He didn’t mention a detour. Did He LIE?
Even though Jesus changed the name of Apostle Simon to “Rock” and placed His hands on Simon (now Peter) and said, “Upon this rock I build My Church, and the gates of Hell will never prevail against it,” did He REALLY mean, “but folks after you guys might run the Church off the rails, so I’ll include a side trip to the American continent, just in case wink wink.”
~VOW
That’s true but I don’t think the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Churches nor the Protestant churches consider The Book of Mormon to be part of canon.
Thanks Rhodes. This is interesting. From that article.
Several interesting points here. I was really surprised after I left the church to see how others churches were actually giving money to charity.
The members are encouraged to not only donate 10% of their income in tithing, but also to donate Fast Offerings. Back when I was a kid, people talked about it being 10% of the tithing, or 1%. I doubt that most people give that, but even so, the church is paying out less in charity than the suggested Fast Offerings.
Actually, after rereading over Rhodes’s article, it looks like the bigwig apostles can earn extra dough by serving on the Boards of Directors for various Mormon subsidiaries. I knew there was no way someone like Gordon Hinckley, who never earned a penny in his life that didn’t come out of a tithe-payer’s pocket, survived for 50 years on a seventy’s stipend.
Meh. I honestly don’t get what is so threatening about Jesus making a farewell tour after his resurrection, saying the exact same things he said in the Bible. I mean, Joseph Smith got the idea from the Bible itself. Jesus says, there are other sheep who are not of this fold whom I must visit, and Joseph Smith was like, wow, let’s have him visit the Indians!
Yeah, it’s silly to write your own Bible fan fiction, but no sillier than believing in four completely contradictory Gospels and making it into a church.
As for your other objections, it wasn’t a backup plan; presumably omniscient Jesus knew that his American franchise church would go belly up in a few hundred years. Also, it has no bearing Peter or Joseph Smith, since Joseph Smith claimed to be restoring Peter’s church, not the Indians’ church. Something about this really sticks in Evangelicals’ craw, but I can’t figure out why when there is so much more wacky stuff in Mormonism to criticize. I’d guess it’s like a not very good writer writing a sequel to Lord of the Rings, and everyone getting pissed because Aragorn would never say that!
The Book of Mormon required some editing after the original 1830 version came out to change the book to meet the new ideas of the godhood. The original version had Jesus and the Father as one god, but then that got edited to reflect JS’s new idea of them being separate beings.
It was a pity that they didn’t continue the practice through Brigham Young’s detour of Adam being God. We could have had several BoMs to choose from.
Jerald and Sandra Tanner did extensive research on BOM and found countless versions where editing had occurred. This was executed on the “most perfect book on Earth,” according to Joseph Smith.
~VOW
You’re missing the point. It’s not that there a jillions of reasons that Mormonism can be shown to be incorrect, it’s where the inconsistencies are and how the inconsistencies support the hidden story.
I always get a laugh when other literal Christians poke fun at the Mormons. As my Catholic friend says, you have to accept a lot in order to believe anything. The only difference between Mormons and other Christians is that the evolution of theology occurred less than 200 years ago, versus 2,000 years ago, plus or minus 20%.
You believe that the son of a god came down to earth, was killed and then three days later rose up from the grave, allowing everyone on the earth to be saved by believing, and you’re worried if he took a working holiday or not?
I did not intend to abandon this thread; I have been dealing with the first migraine i have had in quite some time. I now have a lot of study material thanks to this thread and I am grateful for all the well thought out and well phrased responses. I am grateful for the inputs and will try to form an opinion of my own.
Again, thanks for the inputs but please keep those cards and letters coming.
Let me guess: the correct interpretation of the Bible is the one you have?