Morons who don't know how to use traffic roundabouts

The BBQ Pit
61

I live in the roundabout capital of North America (yes, we really are called this). We have just under or over 100 and still building them like mad. That is a lot for a little suburb of 50,000 or so. When they first started building nobody knew how to use them, but it didn’t take long and now everyone I know loves them. Getting around town is much quicker now. Not waiting at lights eliminates emissions and gas consumption. Accidents are much milder at these intersections (usually just side scrapes). The drive down one of the main roads into the bigger city we are a suburb of is smooth and quick… until you hit the city line and suddenly traffic backs up like crazy… why… this is where the traffic lights start. There are signs and markings in the lanes so it is easy to know where to be. It is only the out of towners that seem to have issues. There are a couple that I try hard to avoid where there is a big hospital and heart center. It serves a lot of rural areas to the north and you can count on lots of the people getting confused/scared of the roundabouts there.

My only complaint is that we are building so many you never know which intersection will be closed as they build another. But even then they don’t take too long (and cost less than an intersection with a light) so in about a month you have another smooth intersection.

62

It occurs to me that many of us are taking past each other with the term “roundabout.”

This is what the state highway department calls a “roundabout.” It’s pretty simple – stay on the inside if you want to turn (or make a U-turn); stay on the outside if you want to continue going stright.

Yeah, that avoids having to put a stop light there and having cars backed up waiting to turn.

**But that’s not what I’m talking about. **

I’m talking about multiple streets that come together in what we in the Midwest call a traffic circle and others call “rotaries” or “hubs” where unsuspecting drivers end up in an inside lane, doomed to drive in circles until 3 a.m., when traffic is finally light enough for them to escape.

63

What lanes? That circle is one wide lane to me. If you get too far inside and get cut off, that’s a sign you are too stupid to be allowed to operate a motor vehicle.

Here is an example of the main drag in my town. Pretty simple, right? But if I shot everybody who screwed it up, I’d be on a pace with Mao, Stalin and McNamara, body-count-wise.

64

Draw it out. Really.

If everyone is obeying the rules then you should never find yourself in the inside lane needing to exit and having a vehicle beside you in the outside lane unless you are both exiting in the same direction. And if so, obviously just stay in your lane.

Choose your lane before reaching the roundabout based upon which direction you want to leave the roundabout. Yield to ALL vehicles in the roundabout - do not enter the outside lane beside a vehicle that is already in the inside lane of the roundabout. Do not overtake any vehicles while on the roundabout.

If some asshole did not follow the rules and attempted to make a left turn from the right lane (US drive-on-the-right traffic rules), and an accident results then they are the one at fault. Same for a jerk making a right turn from the left lane.

65

this to me is the biggest benefit. No, they don’t eliminate collisions, but ones that do occur are mild sideswipes at relatively low speeds. As opposed to the broad-side (T-bone) collisions at signaled/signed intersections which are frequently severe and result in injuries and deaths.

Well that’s just a piece of shit.

66

Here is an assortment that I consider “roundabouts.” It may look complected but it really isn’t. Also, in case it looks odd the road goes under N Meridian St.

67

They come in many flavors. Including Eldritch Horror.

68

That’s not a roundabout. This is a roundabout!

69
70

I know. But suppose I’m approaching a roundabout and want to go straight. I’m in the right lane. When I get to the roundabout, there’s a car in the inside lane. How much space, ahead or behind, do I need to give him, knowing that he may be crossing my lane? Suppose I give him room before I enter the roundabout, but he speeds up or slows down and we hit; who’s fault is it?

All of which presupposes that roundabouts have only four roads. Tell me how to go straight at a roundabout with five roads, or which lane to be in.

71

Assuming US drive-on-the-right rules…

For simplicity of description assume you are approaching northbound. The intersecting road is an east-west road.

The vehicle already in the roundabout is in the inside lane. That means it could have entered from any direction and could be exiting eastbound, northbound, or westbound. (If it was exiting southbound it would not cross your path and this would not be an issue.)

If you are exiting eastbound then no problem, even if you fail to yield to the vehicle already in the inside lane of the roundabout, since you exit into the right hand lane and the other vehicle must exit into the left hand lane.

If you are exiting northbound then no problem, even if you fail to yield to the vehicle already in the inside lane of the roundabout, since you exit into the right hand lane and the other vehicle must exit into the left hand lane.

The issue is if you want to exit northbound and the other vehicle wants to exit eastbound. Yield upon entering the roundabout and the other car will exit in front of you, going across your lane.

If you want to exit westbound or southbound then you messed up because you should have approached the roundabout in the left lane. If you find yourself in this situation make a legal exit from the roundabout and then turn around in a parking lot or whatever and come back to the roundabout and try again.

Turtles all the way down, man.

It works. You can draw out the possibilities, but it really works.

72

It really doesn’t.

We have (that I know of) six in our county now, including three on a street that parallels mine. Whether I want to or not, I wind up passing through them fairly often. They are very problematic. I think part of the issue is that people don’t do a great job of driving in them; mostly, though, I think it’s a flawed system.

*Traffic circles do back up; they back up a lot. At least around here they do. I’ve been stalled in one traffic circle because people ahead of me can’t get into the next one. In built-up areas I don’t see how you avoid it.

*There’s a ton of judgment involved. In fact, the system relies on judgment. Do I have enough room to get into the circle before the driver already approaching me gets here? Does the driver behind me think I have enough room? I-can-make-it-oh-no-I-can’t is not a recipe for worry-free driving. I see a lot of drivers stopping and starting, jamming on the brakes, things like that. I’ll be honest: I don’t generally trust the judgment of other drivers. I think things are better when there are clearly defined rules (stop on red, go on green; yes, I recognize that yellow lights and turns can be reliant on judgment as well, but traffic circles are all about judgment).

*As has been mentioned, it’s hard for pedestrians. One reason is that drivers are so busy trying to figure out where the other cars are, they don’t pay much attention to those of us who are walking. (You’re supposed to stop if someone is about to enter the crosswalk. Some drivers do, often to the surprise of those behind them. Not all do.) Yes, this is partly the fault of drivers, but it’s also a flaw in the system. I would much rather cross a street at a stoplight than at a traffic circle.

*As has (I think) not been mentioned, it is REALLY hard on cyclists. The road is too narrow and drivers are looking for other cars, not bikes. I have given up riding my bike along that parallel street. It’s just too dangerous.

I’m told that accident rates and fuel consumption go down when there are traffic circles (told outside this thread as well), and that may be true. But when we build things that are not bike- and pedestrian-friendly, it seems that the fuel savings are achieved at a short-sighted and unfortunate cost; and while I’m glad that accidents are reduced, I always wonder how this can be! --Wait, I have a possible answer: when the county built the three on the road near me, traffic went down on that road and has stayed down. Fewer vehicles might equal fewer accidents! (I’m only being partly serious here, and I have no idea what the story is elsewhere, but it is absolutely true here that traffic dropped when the road was remodeled.)

73

That’s what I was getting at. Any traffic device works if everyone does what they’re supposed to. But we’re humans. I just see a problem when the exiting car is in front of me and slows down too much (especially without signaling), or he’s behind me and catches up because he has the shorter path around the roundabout.

Except when it doesn’t. Accidents still happen in roundabouts. They’re probably not as bad as in the intersections they replace, and that’s a good trade off, but they’re not some perfect solution where everything flows perfectly.

74

No, this is a roundabout.

75

Short of building interstate highway style flyover bridges at every damn intersection we are going to have some sort of surface grade intersections. Any traffic control system depends upon drivers to use good judgement. Traffic lights, yield signs, roundabouts, stops signs, etc… there will be collisions. The evidence indicates that collisions at roundabouts are less frequent and less serious.

Remember, following the rules, the car in the inside lane has no reason to speed up or slow down unreasonably. The key rules of roundabouts include selecting the correct lane before arriving at the intersection. Do not overtake on a roundabout. And do not stop in a roundabout - of you cannot clear the roundabout then do not enter it.

Coincidentally these are quite similar to the rules at a traffic light controlled intersection. At such intersections you still must choose your lane before arriving at the intersection. You should not overtake in the intersection unless the vehicle in the other lane is stationary and signalling a turn. And you still should not enter the intersection if you cannot clear it.

Sure, traffic can gridlock when heavy traffic flow clogs the roads between two close roundabouts. Same can happen with traffic lights.

I work in a 9-1-1 center. I personally have taken perhaps 2500 reports of motor vehicle collisions over the years and supervised staff processing 10,000 more covering all types of intersections. Perhaps 2000 of that 12,500 have been at roundabouts. The overwhelmingly large percentage of roundabout collisions are caused by a driver not selecting the appropriate lane. And, so far, not a single one of those roundabout MVAs have been a fatality. Not a one.

76

Went thru it once in drivers ed. Didn’t dare try again for 30 years. :eek:

77

You are welcome to your opinion… mine disagrees with you.

I have 7 on my very short commute to work one way… about a 5 minute commute. As I mentioned there are around a hundred here and more coming. If you click on my link above you will see five or so in one very small area.

Yes they do sometimes. But if you look at it as a whole they are far better than any other option. I’ve never had to stop at an empty roundabout waiting until a signal tells me it is ok to go. I’ve never had to come to a complete stop when I can see nobody is around coming the other direction.

I think you just defined “driving.”

Nope… pedestrians have only one direction to look and one or two lanes to cross with the traffic all coming from the same direction. Before a roundabout there was a 4 lane divided road that was a nightmare to cross. Now I do it all the time without a second thought.

As with pedestrians… not my experience at all. I see bikers all the time and I’ve never seen any that had a problem.

My son got hit in a roundabout by an out of town driver (in a rental car) following his phone and not really looking at the signs or arrows in the road. My son was driving my Audi Q7 and the total damage for my car was $1,500. Can you imagine what it would have been if he had been T-Boned?

78

How common are traffic circles with multiple lanes in the US, though? I’ve only encountered one, that until three years ago had just one lane like all the rest.

I’m also confused, though. Why would the car in the inside lane need to cross your lane? If it works like that one here, the inside lane exits to each street the same way the outside lane does, so there’s no crossing necessary.

79

In the few cases I’ve noticed involving crosswalks, it seems the crosswalks aren’t position exactly at the roundabout, but about a car’s-length before the entrance to it, on each of the streets leading into the RA.

80

Who cares? Cyclists just ignore traffic rules anyway.

well, if we let perfect be the enemy of good then nothing will ever get accomplished. I’ll take roundabouts even though a few numps who refuse to learn anything new might cause a minor collision here and there over the much more dangerous high-speed T-bone of some asshole running a red light or turning left in front of oncoming traffic.

Roundabouts are objectively better for many intersections, no matter how whiny some people get because they might have to engage their brains briefly and learn something new.

and yes, I’m calling you out specifically on that last one. you’re inventing imaginary problems to justify why you think roundabouts are bad (apropos of nothing) and shrugging off repeated attempts to explain to you why your fears are unjustified.