Life insurance policies named each other as beneficiaries, so though the survivor may possibly have lost the house to others estate, the bank, etc. but financially the survivor would be just fine.
Another thing I though of is if you pay off the whole mortgage and own the house outright, she still owns half of it if her name is still on the deed. Her walking away and washing her hands of all this wouldn’t mean anything if she sued for half the value of your paid-off house in the future - the deed says she’s part owner, and if you want her to not own part of it, her name has to come off of it.
Basically, my gut says that leaving a loose end like this is just not a good idea. Chances are she never will do anything too egregious, but I just wouldn’t leave that door open.
Absolutely, and totally on my radar. Once we have figured this out, and come to agreement, as soon as she comes off the mortgage, she comes off the deed. She understands that as well.
Thanks for the reminder though!
Not necessarily true - depends on how title is held. If it’s “joint tenancy with right of survivorship” then FatChance would own the whole house. If it’s some other form of title, then it would be subject to the ex’s will.
http://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Bob%20Bruss/Joint_Tenancy.htm
I’m not sure you have too many choices here:
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You can’t refinance a house that is underwater without having the cash to make up the difference. Neither you or her have the cash. The mortgage is going to stay and her name is going to be on it.
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She could quit claim the deed, and come off the deed, but she’d still be on the mortgage. There wouldn’t be any reason, from her point of view, to do this. (I got this from my ex husband in the divorce decree - he had to quit claim the house, but I didn’t have to refinance the mortgage - I did, once I was back on my feet enough to do so).
I think your best bet - since you don’t want to try a short sale, is to sit tight. Talk to an attorney, but what you want is an agreement that says “I’ll pay the mortgage. We agree that as long as I do that, all equity in the house is mine (there isn’t any there now anyway), and when its possible to refinance, I will refinance without you on the mortgage, and you will sign a quit claim deed.”
You’ll need her to remain on the periphery of your life for long enough for the market to bounce back, or you to be able to pay the delta between the value of the house and your current mortgage to remortgage it.
I wouldn’t try to go after her for any portion of being underwater. I don’t think you’ll be successful - unless you agree to sell the house - which means a short sale. Consider her half of the mortgage payments “rent” and move forward. Chalk it up to “don’t buy a house with a girlfriend” and “buy a house with at least a 20% downpayment.” Those USED to be good rules of thumb - they still are.
I am not an attorney. I have done this one before - in a marriage, with a divorce decree, and in a market that wasn’t underwater.
Even people who put down 20% are under water in some areas. Depends on the market.
Yep, but a LOT fewer of them are underwater with 20% down. And those that put 20% down are a lot less underwater than they would be.
I do possibly have the cash - depending on the value of the house and what kind of loan amount I can get.
A few updates -
Legal - spoke to a couple of attorneys who have told me the following: 1) If I want to keep the house myself, she has no obligation to give me any money at all 2) If we sell for a loss, she is obligated for her half of that loss. As far as getting any portion of my down payment back, there is no clear legal yes/no action, and I could file against her and have a judge decide. I am meeting with a friend’s husband who is an attorney to further clarify this. If nothing else I think I can use this as bargaining to get something back from her - if selling for a loss would cost her $20K, I can offer to take the house in my name, refinance asap if she gives me only $10K (for example).
Short Sale - spoke with my bank, they are pretty much saying no to a short sale unless we start missing payments. Going down this road is too damaging to my credit, I’d rather pay to sell for a loss.
Refinance - a few banks are willing to refinance for 97% of the appraised value with a low 4.xx% interest rate with an fha backed loan. So I would have to pay off the gap to my current mortgage, and how much that would be would depend on the appraised value. Hopefully I work something out like I mentioned above to get some money from her to offset that cash outlay. Waiting to hear back from another lender, then will get the house appraised.
I have a realtor coming in this week to help me determine what I can sell it for, and rent it for. Another option I’m considering is keeping it, moving out and renting it. Rent woudln’t cover the payments, but that few hundred dollars extra plus cheap rent of my own would be less than the full payment, and I can keep the house as a long term investment.
She and I spoke last Monday, and the converstation went fairly well I thought. We agreed to talk again on Thursday. By 11pm when she wasn’t home, I grew angry. At midnight, when she came in, went right the the bedroom and closed the door and then texted me that “She went out, not talking tonight”, I was livid. I confronted her - she accused me off all sorts of devious things, yelled at me, etc. She left for the UK for 2 weeks, so I’m only looking out for myself now.
Listen, at this point, the best thing you can do is to leave her the hell alone. You’re justifiably angry, but that’s the way the ball bounces in relationships.
If you continue to angrily confront her, not only will it further alienate the person whose cooperation you might need once you decide how to dispose of the property, but you might be putting YOURSELF in a precarious legal position. For all you know, she could be taping your “confrontation.” And if you’ve done ANYTHING which could be construed by a judge as threatening, you’re opening up the door to having an order of protection issued against you. How fun would that be? So. cool. it.
The relationship part is over. Now you need to treat it like you’d treat any other BUSINESS transaction because that is exactly what it is. Hire an attorney to represent you, who will communicate with her on your behalf. Then leave her alone.
Now, if he does that, then his chances at “separation sex”, go to virtually nil!
I was angry and I confronted her, but I was calm, rational, and polite. She yelled and screamed. I stood thier quietly, asking logical questions.
I am trying to treat this like a business transaction, and should have an attorney lined before she gets back home.
From your perspective - hers might be 180º different. I agree with the advice to just leave her alone now - you might be acting perfectly fine, but there’s A LOT of baggage still in play here, and you’re both in a minefield.
Pretty much exactly what I wanted to say, so just seconded for emphasis.
Spoke with an attorney yesterday - I do indeed have a legal right to get half my down payment and closing costs back if I wish.
See post above - it is in fact my legal right.
Be careful…you can in a case like this, easily end up paying your attorney more than your ex owes you - and then find that the judge doesn’t agree with the attorney. The attorney generally works hourly - and some of them are more interested in how many hours they can bill you than what your true chances of success are. I wish you luck, but don’t get yourself so worked up you loose sight of the objective - which I think is to leave you as whole as possible.
Of course, if the objective is to teach your ex some lesson or take it out on her, and you can afford it, might as well pay the attorney to spend years dragging this through court.
Absolutely good advice - at this point the attorney helping me is the husband of a friend of mine. He has already offered to help with advice, negotiating with her, and simple filing of motions, etc if needed.
I’d never let this get to the point of judge. I would just let her walk if it came to that.
This is more for a negotiating tactic, and way of making it more obvious to her that I am not out to screw her over, I am not taking advantage of her, and I am in fact more than willing to take much less than is fair for me.
I’m not trying to teach her lesson either, I am trying to not lose all my money and put myself a decent financial position that is fair for both of us. In the end she may end up learning a lesson though - you can’t walk away from a legal contract and obligation with no impact simply because you don’t like your situation anymore.
I doubt she is going to see bringing an attorney in as anything other than threatening her with your superior resources. But you know her and I don’t.
She probably would. But I’m not bringing him in, so much as getting advice behind the scenes, and therefore using facts with her that have a legal basis, rather than just guessing. And my point was that he was doing it as a favor, so this won’t cost me much past a thank you dinner or bottle of scotch.
Further, she already screamed something at me that night about gettng an attorney, so she may be bringing one in anyway.