Most Americans believe Trump owns Trump Tower, making it PERFECT cover for ...

The most compelling reason against 9/11 truthers is that not only did Bush and Rove lack the capability to carry out something successfully, and then not getting caught, but that they would be torn to pieces when it turned out they had murdered their own citizens.

Actually, I’m seeing a pattern here: an official position of The President’s Bogeyman. The Grey Eminences to such Richelieus as Bush II, Clinton, Trump and Obama.
From Colonel House under Wilson:
Hillary Clinton

Karl Rove

Saul Alinsky

Stephen K. Bannon

Maybe that explains the ties to Uncle Puti and his Chechen moles…?
Wow, its like I just defeated a 30-foot billion dollar wall with less than $5 of rope.

So, Congressman Sandman, I take it your point is that we need a smoking gun? OK…

I pit the OP for not sharing his drugs with the rest of us.

You are claiming that Trump’s empathy for others would prevent him from agreeing to something that had the potential to enrich and empower him?

It’s an interesting theory. On what do you base it?

That is a comforting thought. But the FBI’s New York City branch is called “Trumpland” for a reason: it’s filled with agents who are true believers:

Another comforting thought, but I can’t help thinking of the many similar opinions floating around before the election, to the effect that Trump couldn’t possibly be elected because his operation was amateurish, under-staffed, and filled with incompetents.

This wouldn’t take a precision, highly-coordinated plot. All it would take would be identifying a suitable patsy and getting him into Trump Tower (captured by cameras) at the same time that pre-planted explosives are detonated. It could be accomplished as a one-man operation.

And to hope that there is not one single Trump-believer who’d be willing to do it ‘to save our nation----it’s hard but sometimes the hard decision is the right one’…to assume that there isn’t anyone who’d be willing to rationalize doing something like this as the Patriotic Thing To Do, is to fail to pay attention to human nature.

It doesn’t matter if this gets discussed as tinfoil-hattery—as long as it gets discussed. The entire value of the potential operation lies in the fact that most Americans would assume Trump would never permit such a thing to happen. If some number of Americans actually start to consider the possibility, then the risk of it being undertaken by a desperate White House diminishes considerably. They don’t want to be suspected. Anything they might engineer, would have to be something that few Americans would believe to be worth investigating.

If more Americans realized that Trump doesn’t own Trump Tower outright, the safety of those living and working there would be that much closer to being assured.

So, anyone reading this: spread the word that a cuuurrrraaaaaaaazzzzy new conspiracy theory has arisen! It’s absolutely insane! Tell everyone you know how freakishly absurd it is: the very idea that Trump would let anything happen to his beloved Trump Tower (and beloved wife) is completely, totally, bonkeriffically nuts!!!11!!!

Yeah, it’s bad enough to hear the conspiracy theories about what he’s done, that he’s done A and B over here to distract us from X and Y over there. There’s no need to ascribe nefarious motivations to him, it’s enough to just look at what he’s done and said, those things are bad enough. There’s no need to make up conspiracy theories regarding things that have happened, and definitely no need to make up conspiracy theories on what he might possibly do.

Right, I don’t think people realize how difficult a big false flag operation would be to pull off successfully. The Trump campaign did display some competence in winning, but also had a bunch of lucky breaks. It takes a lot more than lucky breaks to orchestrate a major fake terrorist attack and not have it prevented before it can happen or have it traced back to you.

I wasn’t familiar with the Reichstag fire, but reading a bit about it, it’s not agreed upon by everyone that it was a false flag operation. The consensus seems to be that it wasn’t a false flag and that the Nazis just had a lucky break in having something they could use. But even if it was a false flag operation, it would have been so much easier of an operation to pull off compared with creating a massive explosion at Trump tower.

The Reichstag building seems to be in the middle of Berlin, but since it was a Parliament building, I’m guessing there were few people in or around the building in the middle of the night when the fire was started. While Trump Tower is in the middle of Manhattan and has residences and 24 hour security. There will always be people coming and going and someone would notice if explosives were being set up.

And you might say that there would be a way to sneak in explosives without residents being aware and without them noticing suspicious guys doing suspicious things, and that the security could be paid off to look the other way or to not care, but that ignores human nature. Some security could be paid off to ignore drugs or prostitutes or Russian spies coming and going, but it’s a giant leap from that to ignoring explosives and the resulting huge number of deaths.

Also, I’m pretty sure that the Secret Service is watching Trump Tower pretty closely, so you’d also have to assume that you could either do this without them noticing, or pay them off and get them to ignore it, and either way seems pretty difficult.

I could maybe see a false flag operation being set up where some small explosions go off on one floor, or in garbage cans out front, or something like that, and some patsies being set up, but that would still be very difficult to pull off and not get the conspiracy discovered, and something small like that wouldn’t get the American people outraged enough to let our civil liberties be destroyed.

I could go further, but I just want to emphasize that this is a really stupid idea, and is not going to happen, and if you want to fight Trump, there are some productive ways to do so. It is not productive to make up conspiracy theories. You are only hurting the cause.

You gloss over “pre-planted explosives” as if that were the easy part. Are the tenants just not going to notice these dozens of workers boring holes in the wall and running miles of det cord all over the place?

Waitaminute, you mean that’s not wire for the Christmas decorations?

Exactly, if you wanted to bring Trump Tower down, it takes more than just sticking some C4 on one building support. I don’t know what would be required (and I’m definitely not going to research it) but there’s no way you could realistically set it up like one guy found a way to take down the building with explosives.

And even if you could set up the explosives with no one noticing (although as I said before, you can’t do this), it’s still not an easy one man operation. You have to identify a suitable patsy, kidnap him, get him seen by cameras looking suspicious at the right time, and put him in the right place to be either arrested or killed. The camera part I especially don’t know how you’d do without a coordinated team. And you also have to have all these people who work on this be okay with killing Americans in the middle of New York City.

You’re using a straw man argument. No claim that the Tower must be “brought down” has been made.

All that’s needed to get the American public freaked out and ready to hand the T. Administration broad powers, is a simple explosion, in a place that those Americans assume Trump “cares about” and wouldn’t agree to see attacked. All that’s needed is, say, an explosion set up in one residence (which of course would do damage to more than one residence in a multi-dwelling facility like Trump Tower).

(Parenthetically: Paul Manafort is under investigation. Paul Manafort is vulnerable. Paul Manafort would benefit from a situation in which Emergency Powers were granted to a President who could suspend investigations, all in the name of Keeping America Safe, etc. Paul Manafort lives in Trump Tower.)

What on earth are you talking about? Kidnapping???

One guy identifies, from FBI files perhaps (remember the Trump-land nature of the NYC FBI, previously cited), a NYC-vicinity Muslim who has posted negative things about the USA or Western Civ or whatever.

That one guy sends said Muslim person a letter. Maybe it offers a job interview. Or states that a well-known celebrity (cleric or otherwise) would like to meet with the person. Or purports to be from a relative. In any case, the meeting will take place on Some Particular Floor of Trump Tower on Some Particular Date.

So you have plenty of footage of said Muslim person arriving, walking through the lobby, taking the elevators.

What’s the problem?

Coordinated team? Again: what on earth are you talking about? All it takes is one guy to send the letter.

If you sincerely believe there is not ONE Trump true-believer who believes he’d be doing a Patriotic Act that would Make Future Generations Praise him, then you haven’t been paying attention. There is definitely more than one such person residing in the USA at this very moment.

You did, in your OP;

All that’s needed to get the American public freaked out and ready to hand the T. Administration broad powers, is a simple explosion, in a place that those Americans assume Trump “cares about” and wouldn’t agree to see attacked. All that’s needed is, say, an explosion set up in one residence (which of course would do damage to more than one residence in a multi-dwelling facility like Trump Tower).

(Parenthetically: Paul Manafort is under investigation. Paul Manafort is vulnerable. Paul Manafort would benefit from a situation in which Emergency Powers were granted to a President who could suspend investigations, all in the name of Keeping America Safe, etc. Paul Manafort lives in Trump Tower.)

Well, for one, there’d be absolutely no evidence of him having any knowledge of explosives, building bombs, ties to radicals, etc., plus, you know, a paper trail showing that he was invited to the building.

And who plants the explosives?

Then find us one. Show me a cite for a Trump supporter saying it would be permissable to commit the mass murder of Innocents so Trump can become a dictator. Shouldn’t take you more than five minutes if there’s definitely so many of them

This is up there with 9/11 trutherism, and you’re truthing something that hasn’t even happened.

I hate Trump as much as the next guy, but this thread is all kinds of stupid. :smack:

Y’know, over the weekend I created a meme. First general-purpose meme I’ve ever created. I shared it on Facebook, and enjoyed seeing “Likes.” And when someone shared it, I felt, for a moment, giddy. Was it about to go viral? Squee!

It didn’t.

But I know how you feel. What if your dumb theory goes viral? How exciting would that be? Of course you want everyone to spread it, because then it might! Squee!

It won’t.

Yeah, I’m going with this. They would certainly take advantage of a major tragedy to seize more power, but I’m not seeing them creating an incident themselves.

In theory the Russians could do it (and have no scruples about mass murder) but I doubt at this point they want Trump to have more power. They want to weaken the US, not unify it. Plus then they’d have to go to all the trouble of killing everyone involved and they’re still cleaning up their last mess.

I have to agree with this. Even if the administration wanted to do it, they’d fail while executing it. Our counter-terrorism services are more competent than the White House. It’s a lot harder to accumulate explosive materials than it used to be.

Seriously ? When foreigners expect mass killing, torture and death from the skies anywhere, over the last 50 years, they automatically look to America, not Russia.

This is not a political or anti-American point: just numbering up.

One imagines Donald smuggling in tons of fertilizer in his briefcase, little by little.

Well, he can’t hold a shovel with those tiny hands.

Smapti, you appear to have gotten overexcited and made quite a hash of the quote feature, so it’s not entirely clear what you were trying to say. But at a guess–and I’ll add in some quote html to distinguish my words from your own:

^Here’s where you needed to quote whatever part of my opening post you believe shows me writing that the Tower being “brought down” would be necessary to the hypothetical plan. Hint: what I actually wrote, “severely damaged the building,” is not the same thing as ‘brought down’–a straw man which you (implicitly, in post 26) and Sam Lowry (explicitly, in post 28) introduced in order to claim that Bannon et al wouldn’t undertake a staged attack due to the difficulties involved in actually completely demolishing a large skyscraper.

Completely demolishing a large skyscraper would not be required in order for the hypothetical grab for emergency powers to occur. Simply ‘severely’ or ‘effectively’ causing massive damage would be all that would be necessary–as I said.

The straw man about ‘this can’t be undertaken unless the building could be brought down’ remains silly and irrelevant.

What would be difficult about providing these? I’m mystified by your apparent claim that these things would be hard to deliver.

Are you aware that for all real-life attacks on American soil in recent years (and before), the FBI does an investigation? They look at the perpetrator’s computer, etc. How difficult do you think it would be for our hypothetical One True Trump-Fan Operative–having identified a wonderful patsy for the purpose–to prepare for the attack by getting something on the computer of that wonderful patsy…? Knowledge of explosives! Knowledge of building bombs! Ties to radicals!

And there it all will be for the FBI to discover, after the attack. Seriously, why do you think this would be a problem?

(Of course the paper trail of the patsy having been invited to the building won’t be found. That’s easy, and there are lots of ways to ensure that the snail-mail invitation won’t be recovered by investigators. Recall that the hypothetical operative knows where the patsy lives, and could easily enter the patsy’s dwelling while the patsy is on the way to the appointment.)

Whoever you like. Probably our Super Patriot who Knows That Trump Needs His Chance to Make America Great, aka the true-believer operative.

Provide a citation that some people can rationalize violence as a means to an end? Here you go: Psychiatry.org - DSM

Spread the word!

You missed the point-- which was directly above the very paragraph that you quoted:

Which I did. Would you like me to quote you again?

[Quote=Sherred]

Whatever they come up with has to be believable, or it will simply lead to MORE investigation …whatever gets attacked, either by actual Muslim patsies (carefully set up and aimed) or by operatives pretending to be Muslims, has to be something that most Americans will assume Trump would never agree to have destroyed (emphasis mine).
[/quote]

Noam Chomsky: Trump could stage a ‘false flag’ terror attack and ‘change the country instantly’

If the OP is crazy, then so is Noam Chomsky.