For our purposes, how does it matter that these jobs “still exist”? Consider: to give the job back to an American worker, in both cases it is necessary to forgo the new methods; we must either stop using the machine or fire the foreign employee. It doesn’t seem to matter whether the job is done by a foreign employee or by a machine.
… you know, I’ll just leave that alone. It’s possible you’ve watched the ending to Escape from LA one too many times.
So there is no such thing as job search? Job offers simply come, one after another? Once you’ve accepted a job you have much less time to invest in a job search; and your salary becomes a base wage for further comparisons. Further: being out of work directly after graduation is, for employers, very different from someone who has been out of work for significant amounts of time in, say, middle age.
Don’t change the subject. That was an example to show how someone could, in principle, be better off waiting for another job offer. If it helps, consider that – by accepting the $5000 a month job immediately – the worker will no longer have time to look for a new job.
I don’t think you understand. If you’re unemployed, you can get a deferment; they’re extraordinarily forgiving. Student loan penalties simply won’t occur.
I’d appreciate it if you could point out an instance of me implying that you’re wrong because SDMB posters disagree with you. I don’t even think I’ve remarked on your unpopularity here at all.
You can guarantee me all you like. At one point, the Greek pantheon would have seemed overwhelmingly popular to those within its sphere of influence. Was this an argument for its truth? I’m not sure why my beliefs should be influenced one way or the other by a popularity contest; unless you give me some reason then I am unconvinced (and frankly a little confused) by your protestations that voters will soon do away with offshoring.
Still exist. As in they have not gone away, we are still programming computers and programming computers has not been replaced by some new line of work.
Foreign employees do not equal “new methods”.
It doesn’t seem to matter to you. I explained why you’re wrong above.
So now you’re claiming that there’s no such thing as Stuxnet. Or computer viruses. You honestly believe a computer virus can’t shut down an automated factory. All of that is science fiction to you. Got it.
Yet people with jobs manage to do it all the time. There’s tons of articles out there on how to do a job search without alerting your current boss. I was a master of doing that, hell I could do a seminar on it. I’d have to use very small words and crayon, though, for this crowd.
That becomes less “very different” as the months drag on. Hint: I am an employer and work with other employers. It’s like dating - if you’re not dating other women then women think something’s wrong with you, but when you are dating someone, they all want you. Same with employers.
As for middle aged people, well they’re the ones hit the hardest by offshoring. When their knowledge industry job goes to India employers really don’t want them. Then they become a burden on society. But obviously you prefer that than them having a job. :rolleyes:
I wasn’t changing the subject. I used your own words. You offered a dichotomy and I showed you there was an option #3.
It was a false dichotomy style argument.
Absolutely, positively untrue.
Google “looking for work while employed”. There are bazillions of links there.
Right now as we speak employers are only LOOKING for people who are employed. Employers do not even want people who are unemployed.
People who have jobs have plenty of time to look for another job.
Only up to 6 months. Unemployment nowadays can run as high as 2 years.
The Greek Pantheon, my friend, is more akin to the pro-offshoring argument.
When is this “efficient allocation” you kept talking about, ever going to happen? Ah yes, to quote emacknight, ya GOT NUTHIN’ there.
We lost job stability because of offshoring. Now people are spending their entire lives competing for work and for what? What has it gotten us? Progress? Bullshit, we had progress before offshoring, and if we had never ALLOWED offshoring we would continue to have progress.
Ya got nothin’ for the working class. Absolutely nothin’. Your own buddies at the Economist magazine have admitted as much.
Have you seen all the statewide drives that are out there to stop offshoring? We’re fighting you all over the country. This is far beyond a popularity contest… it’s a political war. Within the next 5 years you’ll find that the US Chamber of Commerce’s efforts to stop laws against offshoring will result in statewide citizen initiatives - because we the people are sick of this.
Offshoring is nothing but a load of empty promises. And you still haven’t acquired an understanding of “the high cost of low prices”, have you?
I guess you fucktards think Andy Grove is an idiot, too.
If you guys think you can out-smart Andy Grove of Intel Corporation you sure as hell would never tell him to his face that he’s wrong. Not unless you want to be humiliated in public…
Well, strictly speaking, at the moment you’re the only fucktard we think is an idiot.
Let’s see: this is the same Intel that just 5 years after founding had two major production facilities in Asia, that in 30 years built a dozen or so production facilities in Malaysia, China, the Philippines and Vietnam. The same Intel that shut down facilities in the Philippines (and moved them to other countries with more favorable conditions) to locations such as China, in part due to…higher taxes. Right.
:rolleyes:
And even if he might be partially right about some of the problems - his obsession with ‘scaling’ is silly, because it occured in a world that doesn’t exist anymore: the late 1960s (when Intel was founded) might as well be the middle ages, given how different the world is today.
When the VHS started coming out for the commercial market - almost exclusively from European and Japanese manufacturers - movie companies cried, shouted, stamped their feet, and all but did the biblical ‘rendering of garments’ in complaining that the VHS was unfair and would ‘kill their theater business’, which at one point accounted for 100% of movie companies’ earnings. Notice this nice little blurb from the then-head of the Motion Picture Association of America:
Three guesses how film companies currently generate the most profit.
So, an American manufacturer wants to have the government put in place protectionism for American manufacturing and incentives for American companies who will scale their operations to American labor? And you are surprised by this? You think this is supporting your point? 
I’d laugh in his face and slowly and carefully explain what ‘conflict of interest’ means…assuming he was as dense as you and didn’t get it. Personally, I think he already knows the score and knows exactly why putting protectionist measures in place helps Intel, even if it hurts the country. He’s relying on idiots like you to not get it and to be swept up in the patriotism and over heated rhetoric.
-XT
Well, we’ll add “appeal to authority” to your “agumentum ad poplulum”. AG is not an authority on economics, as opposed to the multitude of economists who don’t favor such actions. He is (was, really) an authority on how to run a US corporation. I’ve met Andy Grove a number of times. He’s smart, but he’s not smart about everything. And, as already noted, Intel is the epitome of a globalized high tech company. Intel expanded manufacturing into Asia decades ago, and continues to do so today.
But if only we would make it worth Intel’s while by giving them an advantage and protecting their profits from foreign competition they’ll be happy to move facilities back to the US and use US labor! How can we turn down such a good faith offer? I mean, this suggestion does come from the (former) CEO of Intel after all…a guy who is an acknowledged expert in international trade and trade policy at the government level, and who has no stake in trying to put protectionist measures in place for the purposes of some nebulous advantage it would give him or his company…
-XT
I’ve lost interest in arguing with you – for those following along at home – this is untrue. Deferments for unemployment and economic hardship can last up to three years.
(While I’m here … I suppose I’ll also note that it’s rather ludicrous to suggest that taking a job doesn’t make it harder to look for work. Why do you think there are so many links about looking for a job while employed? Because it’s hard – and it gets harder the fewer concessions you can wring out of your current employment. E.g., when are you going to schedule interviews if you can’t take a long lunch? What if you have limited sick days but have to travel for interviews? When I considered finding a job after finishing my MA, I had to fly all over the place to interview – if I were secretly looking for a job while employed that would have been nearly impossible.)
Having access to the company fax machine/copier isn’t what it was a decade or two ago. Now anyone can afford a scanner in the US.
Likewise. You’re in re-runs now. Your case was dead weeks ago.
Under extremely rare conditions. Good luck qualifying for that.
While you’re at it, also try putting food on the table while you’re sitting around with no job.
It’s not nearly as hard to fly across the world for an interview when you have money. Which you don’t when you’re jobless.
Seriously… where in the world do you get your fantasies?
It’s easy to fly when you have money, wouldn’t you think?
However, for those who are jobless, there are things called ‘savings’ and ‘credit’ which can be used to provide money to get a new job to both provide for oneself and replenish the expenses in finding a new job.
Cite as to how difficult it is to get a deferment? Oh, wait, I forgot - I’m asking a retarded chimpanzee that doesn’t have a clue what a cite is.
I’ve hired literally dozens of people. Interviewed thousands. It’s always easier to arrange interviews for people not currently working. They can come in whenever.
I’ve worked for (counts…) 8 or 9 companies. Been recruited for the last 7. Four involved overseas relocation. I’ve never had to pay for my own airfare to interviews. I guess you just work for crappy companies. Course, that would make sense, as I’m sure you’re just filling their disabled worker quota.
Not only – as noted – did I not have to pay for the flights or the hotels, but if I had been working a full time job, how in the world would I have been able to take off at least one day (and upwards of three) every time I had an interview? I’m the one living in a fantasy world? You don’t even give any indication that you know what it’s like to have a real job.
Le Jac’s cite disagrees with you, and therefore trumps your real life experience.
Damn it. I hate when that happens.
Actually, I just realized one of the problems - we’ve been using words like ‘deferment’. I don’t think the horned one can read words over two syllables; his intellectual capacity basically starts and stops at ‘fucktard’. We may have to re-word our posts accordingly.
I am impressed tho. He’s managed to keep this intellectually starved, brain-dead, one-trick pony, sorry-ass excuse of thread going for (shortly will be) 11 pages, and has yet to run out of spittle. Lesser men would have been shamed at being beaten like a rented mule in every aspect of this so-called ‘debate’, but not Le Jerkoff.
Don’t forget, guys, that Le Jac is a trillionaire. When he has to go for interviews while out of work he always has to pay, and it’s really hard for him. He knows that, even if you are a trillionaire, it’s better to have a job to put food on your table than to be starving and have to figure out how to get to a job interview…which is why people out of work can’t possibly get a job unless we put in tariffs on ‘certain’ (wink wink, nudge nudge) countries and force…er, encourage…American companies to stop the horrors of outsourcing and offshoring and be more like Intel in word and deed and who has the best interests of America always firmly in mind. pant pant pant
America is about jobs and apple pie and mom and bunnies and duckies, and really cut puppies…and jobs. If I haven’t mentioned it, jobs are also what America is about. Plus the American dream, which means jobs…good old fashioned American Jobs, done by Americans for Americans and with Americans…plus having Americans watching from the side lines and possibly with other Americans doing other things that somehow works into the mix. The point though is that this is all about America…and jobs. Jobs that shouldn’t be done by any of those dirty foreigner types, unless they are from Canada or Europe or possibly Japanese, in which case it’s ok, sort of, since they don’t count.
Just to recap…think jobs JOBS JOBS!!! And America. And tariffs…that’s key to US prosperity now and in the future. And no offshoring or outsourcing. Like Intel. And while you are thinking these things hum a few bars from America the Beautiful, and just mumble through the words you don’t know. Plus a really big waving American flag. And a puppy eating a bunny or ducky who was munching on some apple pie while sitting in moms lap and thinking about jobs…
-XT
Real life experience? You should catch on fire just for saying such words. All the employers nowadays who only WANT people who are currently employed are wrong and you are right? Oh you don’t even know about that do you? Do you? Of course not. Hell there’s a lot you don’t know about. Of course if we started this conversation on what you actually know then there would be no conversation.
There are cavemen out there who are more knowledgeable about modern society than you. You guys even think that Stuxnet viruses and industrial sabotage viruses are “Escape from LA” fantasy material… :rolleyes: