Most Americans oppose offshoring. We need to take action.

[Le_Jacquelope]

@TravisFromOR

As has been pointed out, “American” isn’t a race.

Also, once again, I challenge you to prove your baseless accusations against me. Either do so, or apologize and then shut the hell up.

How about you renounce your hatred of this country and its working class?

[TravisFromOR]

@Le_Jacquelope

How about you renounce your hatred of this country and its working class?

How about you prove your baseless accusations, jackass? You’re just embarrassing yourself.

[Le_Jacquelope]

@TravisFromOR

How about you prove your baseless accusations, jackass? You’re just embarrassing yourself.

How about you stop hating on American workers, fucktard?

[TravisFromOR]

@Le_Jacquelope

How about you stop hating on American workers, fucktard?

Once again, I’m asking you to prove these baseless accusations, or shut up. You cannot do it, and you’re not man enough to apologize.

If your stupidity weren’t so amusing, I’d be insulted.

[Le_Jacquelope]

@TravisFromOR

Once again, I’m asking you to prove these baseless accusations, or shut up. You cannot do it, and you’re not man enough to apologize.

If your stupidity weren’t so amusing, I’d be insulted.

As soon as you stop hating on American workers I will cut you a break. Your stupidity is in fact amusing. I get a kick out of coming here and cranking the organ one more time.

I want to be here to laugh at you when your dream of globalism blows up in your face and America’s seething opposition to offshoring turns into a political wave that your US Chamber of Commerce allies can’t hold back.

You people are probably going to log off of here and never be seen again when it happens.

[TravisFromOR]

@Le_Jacquelope

As soon as you stop hating on American workers I will cut you a break. Your stupidity is in fact amusing. I get a kick out of coming here and cranking the organ one more time.

I want to be here to laugh at you when your dream of globalism blows up in your face and America’s seething opposition to offshoring turns into a political wave that your US Chamber of Commerce allies can’t hold back.

You people are probably going to log off of here and never be seen again when it happens.

Listen, retard:

I do not hate American workers. I have never said anything of the like. I dare you to find one fucking post of mine that even hinted at that. I have never even once supported globalism or offshoring here. I will give you $100 if you can prove that I have ever done so.

If you cannot, then you have to apologize to me and shut the fuck up.

[Le_Jacquelope]

@Le_Jacquelope

It doesn’t matter if it’s Jerome or all the other more mainstream sources that actually supplied him with those stats.

You discount everyone and everything that says offshoring has done more harm than good to the economy, even though the data supports this conclusion overwhelmingly.

Wages did not keep up with inflation, not even during the entire 2003-207 period where the economy was growing:
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/110041/why-youre-not-making-more-money-than-a-decade-ago?mod=career-salary_negotiation

Anemic job growth:
Job Growth Under Bush and Prior Presidents: 1941 to Present

Job growth since the crash has been low-paying, temporary work:
http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/31/news/economy/low_wage_job_growth/

Jerome says 2 million Americans exhausted their 99 weeks of unemployment in 2010. The real figure is 3.9 million by the end of 2010.
3.9 Million Americans Ran Out Of Unemployment Benefits In 2010: Report | HuffPost Impact

So his prediction of 7 million by 2011 is well on track.

Jerome says the average length of unemployment is 22 weeks. The Bureau of Labor Stats says it’s worse - over THIRTY weeks:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm
I can do your homework for you on all 19 points and show you that Jerome Corsi is factually correct, but all you’ll do is show off your piss poor reading skills and claim my cites don’t say what they clearly did say. It’s your standard tactic of clicking your heels three times until your wish becomes true in your head.
Basically, you are attacking the person and not the message. In reality what you should be saying is Jerome Corsi understates the impact of offshoring in your favor.

What’s the matter you feeble minded fucktards? Can’t find any errors in this post? Can’t claim that my cites contradict me?

Your mythical supporters on the intarwebs are getting disappointed.

[TravisFromOR]

I see that you’re not up to my little challenge, jackass.

Are you going to apologize, or not?

[TravisFromOR]

Here, I’ll start for you. All you’ll have to do is copy and paste, fill in the blanks, then post:

I, <blank>, hereby admit that I was wrong, and made baseless and false accusations against one TravisfromOR. I am wholeheartedly sorry, and pledge not to make such accusations again.

Sincerely,
<blank>

There. Was that so hard?

[Rhythmdvl]

Wow, I’m glad I didn’t wade through all 600+ posts. He/she just makes shit up along the way and pretends they’re conclusions. Mixed in there are some bizarre and irrelevant accusations of all sorts of crazy shit. Pretty classic–and blatant–troll behavior.

Unsubscribing from this thread and putting him on ignore. Can’t believe this made it to 700+ posts. It can be fun to feed the trolls I guess, but it’s a shame as there are a host of pro/con issues and arguments regarding trade. I hope one of the more involved feeders takes the time to start a GD thread–it would be an interesting discussion (sans trolls, that is).

[Mince]

@Le_Jacquelope

Basically, you are attacking the person and not the message.

No, not basically; that is precisely what I’m doing.

[Le_Jacquelope]

@Rhythmdvl

Wow, I’m glad I didn’t wade through all 600+ posts. He/she just makes shit up along the way and pretends they’re conclusions. Mixed in there are some bizarre and irrelevant accusations of all sorts of crazy shit. Pretty classic–and blatant–troll behavior.

Unsubscribing from this thread and putting him on ignore. Can’t believe this made it to 700+ posts. It can be fun to feed the trolls I guess, but it’s a shame as there are a host of pro/con issues and arguments regarding trade. I hope one of the more involved feeders takes the time to start a GD thread–it would be an interesting discussion (sans trolls, that is).

So your one-dimensional arguments got destroyed by even the most superficial of scrutiny and you can’t hack it?

Go use ignore. You’ll get slapped in the face by reality soon enough when America gets tired of being stuck with low wage gardening jobs.

[Le_Jacquelope]

@Le_Jacquelope

Again, pushing the one-dimensional argument of offshoring = lower prices.

You ignored the factor that if she worked in America making the iPod she’d have a hell of a lot more money than what she’d earn being a gardener. Furthermore, if she were an iPod manufacturing worker in America, her income would be less vulnerable to rising energy/gasoline and food prices - something that seriously affects someone with a gardener’s wages, especially if they live in extreme cold zones where they also need heating oil.

Now if your response to this is that the cost of iPods would go up if they were made using American workers, you MUST then also discuss the higher productivity advantage that goes along with those higher wages. Of course you might respond then with “if this productivity advantage were true then why doesn’t Apple take advantage of it?” and I’d remind you that corporations do irrational things all the time. See: GM choosing to produce low gas mileage vehicles. I’d also point you to Toyota which produces plenty of cars in America and they pay workers Union wages, though not Union benefits; still, if I were your gardener I would much rather work in an American Toyota factory, with its far higher wages and safer (than China) workplaces.

Better yet, this same gardener could instead do bilingual technical or customer support in a variety of entry-level fields like product support or software companies. I know, I managed a few of those call centers, we pulled people off the street and trained them and they did just fine. She’d STILL make more money than you pay her, and then use that money to get educated and move up the value chain - for instance she could study to go into biotech research. It used to take only 2 years of college to get into the bottom rung of biotech research. That is, before we sent most of those jobs overseas.

All these higher-income opportunities are gone overseas now. What, pray tell, have we replaced them with? A nation of low-paid gardeners and their equivalents, that’s what. To wit: the current job recovery we are seeing is by far and large an explosion of low paying temp jobs. Look at the current underemployment stats and the U6 figures if you don’t believe me.

She’s working an ultra low paying job and is unable to get a better job even if she had the smarts for it, because she can’t afford tuition (which is ALWAYS rising faster than inflation) and the mid-range jobs that would help her pay for tuition, have gone overseas.

You’re making my point here - we’ve gone from good paying manufacturing, information technology, research and customer support jobs that supported the middle class, to low-paid gardeners.
Of course if tariffs existed on foreign tech labor

no no, wait, let’s go back in history here. Back to the 1990s, before the explosion of offshored rent-a-coder work.

Back then your gardener could have gotten into web programming with about 2 years of training and earned her own income. Web sites, back then, were exploding. Tech was evolving very quickly, and progress was moving along at breakneck speeds… without rampant offshoring.

I worked in IT during that period. I was there when we were shoveling in new talent off the streets. A lot of those people I shoveled in moved up the skills chain and became managers or started their own businesses. We weren’t being killed by good wages then, and job growth was off the charts. We could have picked up the pieces and had another job boom in the 2000’s if it weren’t for offshoring.

By the way you’re going to be hurting if your offshored coder hawks that code to your competitor. Don’t think that can happen? Ask Cisco about what Huawei did to them. Which reminds me of the other big mistake your argument is making - under the brand of “free trade” that you are defending here, what’s to stop you from being put out of business by a competitor in India hawking an identical product at cheaper prices? What happens to your gardener then? Google the word “knockoff” for a few eye-openers. Such is what you get with free trade.
Ah yes, because nannies, gardeners and housekeepers were not common before this. Nosiree. :rolleyes:

These are not benefits. Your entire argument amounts to “but at least she has cake”. Your gardener is stuck in a low paying job with little opportunity to finance a move into higher-paying work, because higher, mid-range jobs that support upward mobility have gone overseas. Those are not benefits; they are drawbacks.

The numbers clearly say that in America, we are seeing more low-paid nannies, housekeepers and gardeners at the expense of higher-paid factory workers, customer support, programmers, research and development workers (guess where all that Computer Engineering work went?), web designers, etc. etc.

But don’t you cry for those working class losers. The bell tolls for “high flyers” like you as income tax revenues continue to sag, programs continue to get cut, and lackluster consumer spending eventually catches up with your business in the form of less customers. Like I said, iPod prices are down, but energy costs are up for the very long term and that drives up EVERYTHING else, gutting the spending power of the working class. If East India’s programmers don’t out-compete your company on price you may very well lose customers because they cannot afford your products. Gardeners aren’t likely to buy a new iPod every year, much less your software.

Worse than that (for you), the U.S. dollar is depreciating, because of the trade deficits that are adding to the national debt. Certainly there are other things adding to the debt, but offshoring is helping to do damage. This means you’ll pay more for that offshore labor.

Ha, hah!

I made a perfectly flawless error and sent Rhythmdvl running away with his tail between his legs.

Zero errors. He had no counter argument. His argument blew up in his face and now that’s one more pro-offshoring argument silenced… permanently.

Liberals, feel free to use this the next time someone tries to bullshit you like Rhythmdvl did. You’ll have them scurring back under their rock in no time.

[Le_Jacquelope]

@Mince

No, not basically; that is precisely what I’m doing.

Ayup - because the message is solid and accurate, and you can’t attack that.

[TravisFromOR]

Still waiting for the apology…

[emacknight]

@Le_Jacquelope

So your one-dimensional arguments got destroyed by even the most superficial of scrutiny and you can’t hack it?

Go use ignore. You’ll get slapped in the face by reality soon enough when America gets tired of being stuck with low wage gardening jobs.

My god you’re right, what America needs are more low paying factory jobs.

Wait a second, what’s wrong with a low wage gardening job? I thought NOTHING was worse than being unemployed?

Is having a low wage gardening job worse than being unemployed?

[emacknight]

@Le_Jacquelope

Ha, hah!

I made a perfectly flawless error and sent Rhythmdvl running away with his tail between his legs.

Zero errors. He had no counter argument. His argument blew up in his face and now that’s one more pro-offshoring argument silenced… permanently.

Liberals, feel free to use this the next time someone tries to bullshit you like Rhythmdvl did. You’ll have them scurring back under their rock in no time.

“Liberals:” It also helps if you have all of your opponents on your ignore list. Le Jacquelope’s debate tactic works a lot like and Iranian court, the whole thing flows nice and smooth when you don’t allow the opposition to participate.

[DragonAsh]

@Le_Jacquelope

Wages did not keep up with inflation, not even during the entire 2003-207 period where the economy was growing:
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/110041/why-youre-not-making-more-money-than-a-decade-ago?mod=career-salary_negotiation

Anemic job growth:
Job Growth Under Bush and Prior Presidents: 1941 to Present

Job growth since the crash has been low-paying, temporary work:
http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/31/news/economy/low_wage_job_growth/

Jerome says 2 million Americans exhausted their 99 weeks of unemployment in 2010. The real figure is 3.9 million by the end of 2010.
3.9 Million Americans Ran Out Of Unemployment Benefits In 2010: Report | HuffPost Impact

So his prediction of 7 million by 2011 is well on track.

Jerome says the average length of unemployment is 22 weeks. The Bureau of Labor Stats says it’s worse - over THIRTY weeks:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

Cite that any of the above are due to offshoring? Since almost all your so-called ‘points’ are related to events since 2008, the over-riding factor would be the subprime fallout and recession. Not offshoring.

By the way, if you’re scoring at home, the unemployment rate in January fell to 9%. Productivity rose 2.6% in 4Q. Real average hourly wages rose in Jan 2011 vs Jan 2010, including a 0.5% rise for production and non-supervisory employees.

Is offshoring was such a horrible thing, surely these numbers wouldn’t be getting better, they’d be getting worse?

You ignored the factor that if she worked in America making the iPod she’d have a hell of a lot more money than what she’d earn being a gardener. Furthermore, if she were an iPod manufacturing worker in America, her income would be less vulnerable to rising energy/gasoline and food prices - something that seriously affects someone with a gardener’s wages, especially if they live in extreme cold zones where they also need heating oil.

Uh, no. You’re assuming that Apple would still sell as many iPods etc globally even with the higher price. Which, given the fundamental law of demand, which anyone that took MacroEcon 101 would understand, is very very unlikely. Secondly, why does a worker making an iPod less vulnerable to energy & food prices vs a gardner? Do the laws of physics and economics cease to exist if you work for Apple? Do you think that manufacturers only build factories in places with moderate temperatures year round, so no need for air conditioning or heating?

'Course, you still think that higher prices cause inflation, so I don’t know why I still bother with this thread - you are more qualified to be dry-humped by retarded apes. than discuss pretty much any topic brought up in this thread.

[Le_Jacquelope]

@TravisFromOR

Still waiting for the apology…

You can still fuck off, too.

Your opinion doesn’t even matter. You discount anything that doesn’t support your pro-offshoring delusions and swallow without critique anything that you can twist in your favor. Your entire forum behaves like that.

So keep begging for an apology. It’s never coming. You deserve to be abused because you’re an idiot.

[Rhythmdvl]

@emacknight

Wait a second, what’s wrong with a low wage gardening job? I thought NOTHING was worse than being unemployed?

FTR, it’s not a low-wage gardening job. She is a professional with extensive knowledge of native and exotic plants. She takes care of an acre of exceedingly diverse flowering plants. This isn’t a lawn with a few shrubs and some potted plants–she’s a gardener. She also manages the people that come in to take care of the lawn and what forest work there is, but her focus is the gardens.

She gets paid 6-7 months out of the year to do what she loves. The troll’s suggestion that somehow she would be happier working inside on a production line (at some miracle wage) is laughable. While I’m sure there are people working on assembly lines that would hate working outdoors with their hands, none of it applies to the shit the troll made up.

Similarly, the whole story of our intellectual property being at risk was made up out of whole cloth–client wants an interactive quiz on their website? We hire someone to code it. We give a shit if that code ends up on a thousand other sites? Er, no.

…and so on. I forget what other dumb shit was made up and I’m not going back and forth to the CP to view the rest of its post. There was no content worth responding to. Let it do its happy dance of I WON! I WON!; direct reply or further acknowledgment would be either arguing with the Time Cube guy or feeding a troll. Neither are worth it.