That’s very interesting. What brought you to Somaliland? (and why doesn’t my dictionary recognize that word?)
Going with the OP’s attitude I’d say Oceania. Yes, there’s Big Brother and The Party but people seem to be fine with it.
Hmm, orderly, vibrant, and safe. That part of the world is usually depicted as an anarchic, God-forsaken, Mad Max wasteland. Just goes to show that “anarchy” doesn’t last long, and that government in some form or another emerges, usually quickly.
What were you doing in Somaliland? Where you there for work?
And one day, the cops or the protection people will raise their fees, or a competitor will pay them off so that they look the other way when he breaks the barber’s chair, tosses his scissors into the river, and promises to throw him in next if he dares to return.
But are the hookers up to your standards?
On an absolute basis, or as a percentage of income?
Now that I think about it, I’d rather make $100,000 and pay $50,000 in taxes, than make $10,000 and pay $2,000 in kickbacks. Sure, I’d be less “free”, but I’d have more money.
Sure, In Somalia people are “free” because there is really no government. So suppose you had some nice stuff. A few guys would just come over to your place, hack you to pieces and walk away with your stuff. No one would stop them.
This is not freedom, this is anarchy.
Here is what one large, recognized org says is Freedom:https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new
Rule of Law
Security and Safety
Movement
Religion
Association, Assembly, and Civil Society
Expression and Information
Identity and Relationships
Size of Government
Legal System and Property Rights
Access to Sound Money
Freedom to Trade Internationally
Regulation of Credit, Labor, and Business
Note that Rule of Law and Security and Safety are paramount.
Somalia and Somaliland are so anarchic that they are usually listed as “no data” But here: https://rsf.org/en/ranking_table they rate 164 out of 180.
China is likely one of the least free nations in the world. it rates 177.
The USA ranks 48th.
Let’s try this again in the spirit of fighting ignorance:
One of these barely has a government that barely controls much beyond the capital city, if even that. One is a relatively stable democracy that has been de facto independent, if unrecognized, for nearly thirty years. Still not somewhere I’d want to live, but definitely not anarchy.
The post immediately above mine even quotes the OP and then goes on to talk about Somalia. After I already posted those links. :smack:
Yes, we know Somaliland is a quasi independent nation, which has had a semblance of a Democratic government since around 1991. Unfortunately, there’s no hard data about conditions or freedoms there, and almost none about Somali itself. Puntland also declared independence a little while ago.
I admit Somaliland is off to a good start, but little is known, and that fact that the area is unstable, and it remains unrecognized does not bode well.
I didn’t repeat the part in the OP, but Somalia has absolutely no authority in Somaliland, which is going it alone. Their own circulating currency, license plates, immigration control. No country recognizes Somaliland, but they have an office in Ethiopia that issues visas.
I was in Ethiopia and decided to make a side trip to Somaliland and Djibouti. All my travel is on my own.
There are a few Youtube videos by travelers in Somaland, who had pretty much the same impression as mine.
You’re welcome.
And the solution to poor data is not worse data. Your post was like responding to an OP about Taiwan with data from China.
My one-time friend who was a staunch libertarian wanted a strong police force and military and nothing else from the government. If you owned a house, you also owned the road in front of it and everyone who wanted to use that had to stop and pay a toll. Obviously, there would be no public schools, not that you could get there if there were. In the current covid crisis, people would just get sick and some die until so many would be immune until R < 1. Anyone want to practice medicine? Put up a shingle and call yourself doctor. Need water? Dig a well. Global warming? Too bad if the earth becomes uninhabitable. Real freedom.
What would the police enforce?
I forgot which Chinese philosopher said "The best government is the most corrupt. They come and collect taxes every year, and the rest of the time, they leave you alone.
’
Was this intended for the “Best governed country” or “Most contented people” thread? This thread is Most “free” country in the world? I didn’t think you were American but, yes, many Americans conflate these totally different criteria.
But since off-topic digressions are OK in IMHO, I’ll say: Yes, on balance the standard of governance and overall contentment are probably higher in the USA than in Thailand. But those gaps are narrowing rapidly.
Actually, in my experience, of all the people in the world, Americans are *least *likely to conflate these criteria. To Americans, “freedom” means freedom from government; very few other nations think the same way. That’s why the Iraqis though that being occupied by the United States made them less free - because while Saddam Hussein may have repressed them on a personal basis, at least he kept them free on a national basis, and to them, national freedom was more important than personal freedom.
A large portion of the world’s countries have either no outside interference, or minor outside interference. (The Brits resented EU regulations; some debtor countries resented IMF rules, and so on; but these resentments were mild compared with internal affairs.) Extreme examples, like Iraq under repressive American administration are exceptional, except in cases of war. (Iraqis BTW were largely delighted with the American intervention, until the American-imposed governance proved itself to be incompetent, corrupt and operating contrary to Iraqi interests.)
But yes, people do resent when their country is conquered, or repressed by an outside country. How do Palestinians feel? How do you think Americans would feel if Canada or Mexico somehow conquered the U.S. and mistreated the American people?
TL;DR: Your ostensible point is obvious and trivial; presumably it’s intended as shorthand for something more profound, but I’ve no idea what that point might be.
There are only a handful of countries, where ordinary people are denied simple day-to-day freedoms. Like a choice of career or workplace, education opportunity, family structure, where to live or how to spend your leisure time. . Where those freedoms are denied, it is often a social dynamic rather than government edict that is the hindrance.
A great majority of the world’s people live daily with pretty much the same personal freedom Americans have.