Mother seeks vegence for her son

Yeah, what Machine Elf said. If you shoot someone for robbing you who isn’t threatening you with a weapon, or other deadly force (like a 90lb woman shooting a 240lb man who just threatened to strangle her), you get charged with homicide in the US. The salient feature in the OP’s story is that the robber had a gun, and was threatening to use it.

Now, you can point out all you want that in other countries, would-be robbers don’t have ready access to guns, but by then we’re arguing apples and oranges. America is a different place. We know it. You know it. Really no need to point it out yet again.

I don’t agree.

Florida Stat § 776.012(2):

(emphasis added)

Both robbery and burglary are forcible felonies in Florida (see Florida Stat § 776.08).

Right. And the advice is still to first try to deescalate (and even more so if you are not in a position to flee safely or resist effectively, armed or not) BUT…

Cornered and threatened with a loaded firearm, by itself crosses the threshold for a reasonable person to be in imminent fear for their life justifying use of force (which AFAIK applies in every state and territory, forget SYG). Sure, make the necessary investigation to determine the facts, that’s fair enough. But self defense exists.

I’d say however no need shooting someone who’s already out of the premises and fleeing, provided he *keeps *fleeing. If he stops to turn around, however, the confrontation is re-engaged.

No, I don’t agree that Machine Elf correctly stated the law, and obviously I don’t believe your summary is accurate either. In Florida, to take an example I’m very familiar with following the in-depth analysis the Zimmerman case occasioned, the SYG law includes responding to a “forcible felony” as a justification for the use of deadly force. And Florida law defines “forcible felony” to include robbery.

Too late - he had a four-year old, and his girlfriend was pregnant. Three generations of imbeciles is not enough.

So, if he follows precedent, he will then rob the same Pizza Hut and get shot.

“The cirrrrr-cle of life…”


I noticed under that Florida law that “forcible felony” included “unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb”

Would that include fireworks?

Well as long as you use the fireworks in compliance with the law you should be fine, if you light them and throw them into a flour factory you may have a problem.

I think setting off fireworks is illegal in Florida.

I’d give you a pass, if you used 'em to stop an armed robber.

My point being, seems like you can shoot someone simply for throwing an M-80 or whatever on the 4th of July.

Here’s 776.08:

IOW, a forcible felony is a felony that involves a credible threat to your safety and/or public safety. That would include robbery, which by definition involves the use or credible threat of physical violence against the victim in order to compel cooperation. Going back to my earlier post, a perp who runs into a restaurant and grabs cash without threatening anyone has committed a theft, but he hasn’t committed a robbery. Theft not being a forcible felony, I don’t believe you’d be within your legal rights to shoot him under those circumstances.

Along the same lines, SYG laws only allow use of force to prevent imminent forcible felonies - which means a victim can’t shoot a perp who is fleeing the scene, unless (as JRDelirious suggests) he still appears to present a threat, e.g. by turning around to possibly re-engage against the victim.

But has he committed a burglary?

I haven’t researched the issue.

At common law, this would not be burglary, because the elements of common law burglary include “a dwelling house;” in my state, that element is dispensed with and burglary includes the entry into other buildings with the intent to commit a larceny therein.

Is that act statutory burglary in Florida?

Any time I hear the words “He was such a good boy” my brain automatically translates it to “I knew absolutely nothing about my boy.”

She is obviously wrong, but her child was killed, and that is not a time many people think rationally.

It appears not.

He did enter a structure with an intent to commit an offense therein, during a time when it was not open to the public.

Even if someone bursts in unarmed, grabs cash and runs out, it’s burglary if the business is not open to the public at the time.

What am I missing?

We weren’t discussing the story in OP, we were discussing a post by Machine Elf that began:

“Going back to my earlier post, a perp who runs into a restaurant and grabs cash without threatening anyone”

I suppose it depends on how the state defines “open to the public.” Is it “open to the public” if the doors haven’t been locked yet? If I don’t read the store hours that may or may not be on the door and I enter after hours, have I entered a store not “open to the public”?

Sure, but that comment was in the general context of the story. So I read it as a change to the facts of the story in not threatening anyone, but otherwise retaining the elements of the story.

Thus, my question. I still haven’t researched Florida caselaw on this point, but just from reading the statute it seems arguable that entering a restaurant during a time that is not open to the public, with the intent to commit an offense therein, is a burglary under Florida law.

It’s an affirmative defense, most likely. The accused would have to demonstrate that the building was open to the public, under the ordinary meaning of the words. So yeah, if you don’t read the store hours you’ve entered a building not open to the public, although you lack any intent to commit an offense therein.

776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

It seems that that not all burglaries are forcible felonies, only those that involve that last part (the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual).

I’m not yet convinced of that.