By not being a 733t martial artist or habitually armed to the teeth. There’s no easy way I can kill someone by instinct without first letting Reason get a look in.
It’s* not the same thing* that happens to them, as happened to us. But you knew that.
No, it’s not the same thing, but that’s not what you said. You said nothing happened to him.
I’ll argue any day that what happened to GusNSpot and his family (and other comparable situations for thousands of of other people) can be just as psychologically traumatic, in some cases maybe even more so, as being “just” raped or beat up. Note that I’m not trying to downplay how traumatic those events can be to the victims of them, just emphasizing that you simply cannot dismiss the trauma that can very easily, and often does, occur with close family members.
In reply to him attempting to browbeat Kalhoun (and me) (rape survivors) with his tales of second-hand trauma. It’s contextual - nothing violent happened* to him*, is that better?
Then you would argue like an idiot. Youre saying being trelated to someone who has something traumatic happen to them is worse than the trauma itself? That’s moronic.
Yes, I can dismiss it - usually, it’s self-serving self-pity, and doesn’t help the actual victim at all. I don’t need to know that my family is distraught over my trauma, I need them to take away the pain. How does them wallowing in their own so-called loss do that?
Yes, it’s better. Do understand that because this is a message board that I’m kinda forced to interpret what you write by how you wrote it, and that’s why I wrote what I wrote.
No, that’s not what I’m saying. I quite clearly said that, for example, a parent who’s child was murdered, and then no justice was ever done to the killer, can very much so be a situation just as traumatizing for the parent, as it can be traumatizing for someone to become the victim of rape or beating.
Different kinds of trauma, yes, but comparable outcomes are absolutely possible. You yourself, as well as Kalhoun, have both basically stated that rape is not as traumatizing as the social stigma surrounding it makes it out to be. So, do tell me how I am arguing like an idiot, because I think arguing against my position here is arguing like an idiot.
It’s usually “self-serving self-pity” for a parent or other close family member to be traumatized by the murder of their offspring/sibling, especially when the situation is exacerbated by the murderer escaping any sort of justice?
You seem to be seriously deficient in the area of trauma psychology if that’s what you believe.
Evidently you don’t seem to be capable of making the distinction between being “distraught” or “wallowing in the own so-called loss”, and genuine psychological trauma and what can cause it.
I was referring to the situation with the raped sister, but I see what you mean, and I think I do come across as a bit of an ass there, so I’m just going to apologise to both you and Gus, and leave it at that.
It’s not worse. However, I can fully understand that seeing that happen to someone you care about, could fill a person with hate for the perpetrator. Nothing like that ever happened to my sister, but I can easily imagine that I would have nothing but hate for the person who did it.
Whether I acted on it or not, who knows. I won’t know, ever (I hope).
Ditto, I’m sorry for being so unnecessarily crass and confrontational. I dunno why I got so irritated…I think I may be more stressed out from school stuff than I thought.
What was it Freddy N said?
“Battle not with monsters, lest ye become monsters also.”
I too expect I would be filled with murderous rage if someone killed one of my loved ones, but the example I’d hope to follow would be that of the father forgiving a sons murderer, rather than the one who shot him in the witness box.
My mileage varies. I am not filled with hate for either of the people who raped me, for instance. I wouldn’t give either that much power over me.
All I can ask is, understand that some of us just don’t know. I might let the law handle it. I might do nothing. I might kill him myself. I just don’t know. But I can guarantee, the hate would be there. It’s instinct. Sometimes it’s good to go with instinct, sometimes it isn’t. But either way, it’s a powerful thing. I consider myself fairly civilized, but I also recognize that each of us does have “that other self” under the surface.
On the other hand, if it ever happened, and that same person came back and was stalking my sister/mother/child again, and the law didn’t do anything, all bets are off. Then it becomes a matter of protecting. It becomes simpler and “more pure”.
I do understand. I’m really not judging other people for reacting as they do, believe me. All I’ve been stating is how I’d react, why I think it’s a better way for me, and why I’m so all-fired certain about my reactions. I totally get that other people don’t subscribe to my moral system. That’s OK. It’s not (my idea of) a perfect world, but it’s OK.
Yup, people who CAN easily ‘solve a problem’ with their fists or by other violent means, tend not to consider this.
I think you’re right. I think that anyone, if that extreme moment arrived, would behave differently than they might imagine they would.
Well, I think that’s what had me so mindboggled and wildly curious. MrDibble’s IS very black and white, very absolute. It wasn’t that I disagreed with his stance so much that I was just so surprised that it seemed to be “NO! No matter what, NO killing! Even if it means that not killing would cause others to die”. But in the long run, you’re right, the likelihood of any of those extreme circumstances happening are so small, that really, it doesn’t matter either way.
You haven’t offended me at all, I thought, given that I’m not a man, as you seemed to have thought I was, the “pee yourself into a puddle” remark was funny. Which poster did you think I was? Or did you mean you thought I was a worse SORT of poster? If so, I can have my “pet subjects” and my bad moments like anyone else :D. Some subjects just bring out the passionate GRRRRRR in some of us!
Nope, I read the whole thing. I just disagree with some of it as you reiterated in your post.
I understand and agree, my comments were not to you, nor in disagreement but to state that there are those who do make comments that suggest that one (rape etc) is worse than “mere” molestation. Not everyone of course, but it does happen, that’s the only thing I was trying to bring up regarding that point. You seemed to think, based upon your post, that it had never ever been even mentioned by anyone ever. It has, even by the media (though subtle), and I’ve heard it. That’s the ONLY point I was trying to make, not whatever it is you seem to think I’m saying, or disagree with here.
I don’t think you understood what I said in my post. I did not reiterate that I thought that anyone was absolutely "irrevocably damaged. When I said that I didn’t believe that (paraphrased from the article you quoted and which I referenced in my post) “purity sullied” did not mean that innocence had not been taken, that’s ALL I meant. And I didn’t mean total and complete innocence in all cases forever and ever amen. I merely meant it in the way in which I described in my post. YAY for women who don’t feel any of that. But they don’t speak for every woman.
Ummm, which I agreed with, and then clarified the small point over which I disagreed with **Kalhoun
**
…Ummmmm…What? Where did I say I believed that someone could be “hypnotized and made to forget”? What I actually said was merely (paraphrased) “unless a person is one of those that has forgotten” meaning that they they have forgotten the trauma, and/or part of their childhood. That does happen sometimes with childhood trauma (my former boyfriend for one, though he doesn’t remember why he doesn’t remember his childhood, his mom told me). In NO way have I said that they should then undergo hypnosis or whatever.
Who is advocating blaming the victim or making them undergo hypnosis? Not I said the duck! 
Those cases DO exist , that’s the ONLY thing I brought up (and slightly at that), I said nothing in my post about what, if any, treatment they should undergo.
You seem to be reading way more into my post than I discussed.