I take my California Rider Saftey Course this weekend. Two weeks later I get my certificate and I am off to buy a bike.
I will be riding a Cruiser and have my sights set on an introductory bike from Honda (Shadow) or Yamaha (V-Star). This decision was based primarily on price.
I have been advised to purchase a used bike as I have been told that new riders tend to dump their bikes once or twice. However, I have found that motorcycles tend to have a high resale value and I dont see the benefit of a used bike other than saving maybe $1,000 - $1,500 on a bike whose history I dont know.
My main problem is that I have no idea how to negotiate price on a bike - new or used. If the list is $5,599 where would I start the negotiations ? $5,300 ? Is it better to try and get extras thrown in (helmet, saddle bags, jacket ?)
And I suppose I’d like to hear any horror stories since my decision is not 100% final although I cant imagine changing my mind at this time.
I live in San Francisco so traffic is pretty brutal. I plan to ride in the mountains and along the coast although I will be commuting to work over the heavily congested Bay Bridge.
If you can afford it, of course, go for the new bike with warranty and backup from the dealer. Myself though, I’d actually aim for a used first bike, 3 to 5 years old, ideally < 10K miles. New enough that there won’t be any mechanical problems or excessive maintenance, but used enough to knock a couple of $K off the entry fee.
Bike riding is great, I’ve been doing it for 30 years. There’s a big learning curve, do your first few rides in a low-traffic area so you can get familiar with the handling of your own particular machine and to hone your skills. Wear a helmet, no matter how hot it is. I prefer an open face type, not so claustrophobic as the full ones. Don’t do passengers for a long time, until you are quite confident. carrying a passenger is a whole different ball game in terms of handling.
New riders dump a couple of times? Don’t buy into this. Don’t start out riding expecting to fall once or twice. You didn’t start driving expecting to crash a car acouple of times, did you?
Go to a couple/few dealers. Find the bike you like. Ask for their absolutely rock bottom no f’n around price. They may ask how you plan on paying (cash/charge) tell them. If they ask, thats a good sign becuase if your slapping it on the old plastic they stand to lose a percent or so.
Get that figure from a couple. Go to the one you feel the most comfortable with/best price. Then say "OK. Its sold if you can thow in lid/cover/saddlebags.
HOWEVER,
I tend to agree. For a first bike I would recommend a used one. Nothing makes baby Jesus cry more than laying down a new bike… and you’re more liable since your a new rider.
When I got my 1994 Yamaha XJ600 (Seca II), I looked around the L.A. area. List price was $4,500. The dealers said they could sell it for $3,999. I went to the dealer in Lancaster, CA (where I used to live) and they had the bike on the floor with $3,999 on the sticker – they were already discounting it. Then we negotiated down to $3,700.
Please, please PLEASE do not bite off more than you can chew, especially for a first bike. Don’t get a 1100cc crotch rocket or a 700lb cruiser. Be sure you can lift it yourself if it goes down. I suggest taking it to your front yard (or somewhere with grass). Push in the mirrors and put it on her side gently. Then put it back on its wheels. If you can’t, think twice about owning it/riding it.
My old man made me do that when he let me start to ride the Gold Wing 1200. I could do it so he let me (after riding a smaller bike for a while).
Good advice has already been given on how to get the best price. So I’ll preach on safety.
Do NOT skimp on…
Helmet
Leathers
Boots
Goggles/Glasses
-Ride in low traffic areas 'til your comfortable.
-Don’t take passengers for several months. And try to make your first passengers experienced riders.
-Lights ON…ALWAYS.
People told me that whole “new riders dump their bikes” thing, too. Well, guess what? Old riders dump their bikes, too. I’ve seen people who’ve easily ridden 100K miles on their bikes misjudge something while parking, and their bike goes over. I’ve also seen beginners who go for 15K miles without dumping them. Don’t buy a bike based on “I’ll dump it.”
Even if you do dump it, there’s no guarantee it’ll cause any damage. I used to own a Kawasaki Vulcan. It was dumped once by a friend, and once by me. When the friend dumped it, it ended up lying on the footpegs. No damage at all. When I dumped it, I shattered a mirror. $50 replacement, and it was as good as new.
Get a bike you like, and will ride a lot. Have fun!
Errr, well… nearly. I’m taking my (mandatory in Europe) lessons, and it looks like I’m up for my exam somewhere late September or so.
I don’t know Jack Squad about bikes. But Spiny Norman told me to buy second hand Japanese as a first bike, and so I will. I’ve negotiated to buy a 1995 Yamaha Diversion 600 (the European edition of Johnny LA’s XJ 600, same bike) from another friend of mine. 21,000 kilometers and it never went down. I’m paying some $2800.
Well I had taken for granted that goes without saying. Of course experience riders can dump their bike too… just as experienced car drivers can get in accidents. Your just more likely if you are not experienced. Thats all. No magic involved and nothing saying you will dump it for sure.
then again, it sounds as if you’ve already made some good decisions. You’re starting out with a moderate bike, and that’s a bright move. Not because rookies can’t survive big & bad-ass bikes, but if you want to develop good rider style, it’s a bad idea to get in over your head.
Don’t expect to drop it, but don’t be surprised if it happens. (It sucks, btw.)
Personally, I like the idea of starting out on an all-round, “quirk-free” bike - like the Diversion/Seca II, the Bandit, the SV650 or the like. These bikes are a delight to handle, are sporty enough to be exciting, comfortable enough for long trips and relatively cheap to maintain. Using the first bike to gather skills and insight, you can make a much more informed decision on what bike should be the second - if and when you decide to get rid of the first. It worked for me, YMMV.
But if you’ve your sights set on cruiser-type bikes already, go with what feels comfortable - if you ride it a lot, it’s a good choice. Still, there’s a lot of cash depreciation in new bikes if - after the first season - you realize that you’re really a sportsbike (or enduro, or touring) type of person at heart.
Safety equipment has been mentioned - definitely money well spent. Even if you never crash, the added sense of security makes for more confidence. Oh, and I’ll put in a word for the full-face helmet. I’ve seen the front of one after an unpleasant crash, and I’m VERY happy that those gouges were in fibreglass, not in the face of my friend.
But I guess the best safety tip I ever got was: Don’t let people lure you into riding faster than you’re comfortable with. The other guy might know the road better, might have way better riding technique or might just have less concern for his safety. Let him overtake, if that saves his day.
Apart from that: Have fun, stay safe, keep the shiny side up.
There isn’t much I can really add, but I’ll emphasis a few points made here:
Full face helmets - these are, quite frankly, the best thing to happen to motorcycling since desmo valves (sorry, couldn’t resist). Try to get a helmet with Snell approval. I’ve seen some one who bailed at low speed (around 30) with an open face helmet. It is extremely not-pretty.
There are lots of riders who don’t drop bikes, ever. However, statistically, you’re at your most likely to crash in your first three months, then for a brief time around 2 years (over confidence sets in). YMMV, but it is worth keeping in mind. I’d second Spiny Norman’s recommendation, although I’d add the GS500e and the EX500 to the list; great bikes, and very good at handling San Fran traffic.
ColdfireThe Seca II (err, Diversion, whatever) is a great bike. Lots and lots of fun.
I think you’re confusing dropping a bike with getting in an accident. At least for me, the people who warned me against getting a nice bike were talking about the bike getting out of control while parking or doing very slow turns (like in a parking lot or driveway). I think this is a much different situation than crashing. No matter how good of a rider you are, in traffic you may go down because of other people’s errors, or a misjudgement on your part. However, dropping a bike while parking it is probably preventable 99% of the time by taking your time and being careful. Not to say that experienced riders don’t do it - they do - but usually when they weren’t paying attention or were distracted.
Take it from me (the guy who has ended up on his head a number of times), roadrash on the palms of your hands really sucks.
I’ll join in with others who said don’t worry about crashing or dumping your bike, but be prepared for the possibility.
Had my eyes opened in a big way regarding safety equipment while racing. Walked away from a 90 mph get-off with a scraped shoulder; scuffed leathers, gloves, and boots; sore ribs and one really ugly looking helmet. Do not underestimate the strength of good quality cow hide.
I always heard it as “There are three types of riders: those who have fallen, those who are going to fall, and those who are falling again”.
I always tell people who are getting into motorcycling to expect to crash. This is more to force them to admit that there is risk inherent to motorcycling, than it is a prediction. I have, in my old age, finally met a few motorcyclists who have logged a substantial number of miles (more than 10k) and not crashed. Even they ride like the possiblity exists, though (which is why they have yet to crash). And I’m talking about crashing, not setting the bike on its side in a parking lot.
Here’s one of the things that fascinates me about motorcyclists, in general. In my experiance, If A, B, and C are talking about X’s accident, in the absense of X, you’ll note that it will widely be considered X’s fault that he or she crashed, and that all three riders A, B and C could have avoided the crash/never would have gotten into that position in the first place/could have recovered before hitting the asphalt. I’m told that the same is true of pilots, but I don’t know enough pilots to be sure.
In other words, if you go down, its always because of a misjudgement on your part. And, I would argue (and insurance companies would agree) that your judgement gets better after a few months of riding.
Maybe I’m not following you, but are you saying that you think it’s always the rider’s fault if they crash? How can that be? People pull out in front of you in traffic, they change lanes without seeing the motorcycle, they come to sudden stops without warning, etc. etc. Granted, lots of crashes can be avoided through defensive driving and education, but there’s no way to say that you’ll never, ever, ever be in an accident.
When you want to make your mount spiffy, if you choose to use a tire dressing, DO NOT apply ANY to the tread area.
I scoffed at this. Once.
Fortunately I was going slow enough that I didn’t bend my bike or me, but scared the hell out of me. It’s amazing how little it takes to lose traction.
Motorcycles are wayyy cool. Plus you’ll save a ton of money on gas.
Just to help increase the odds on the falling thing-
Put the motorcyle in 1st gear.
Crack the throttle for two seconds then let completely off.
The front shock should start to compress just as you’ve let of the gas.
The moment the front shock starts to rebound… crack the throttle again.
At this point you should be riding on the rear wheel only. (hopefully you havent had the winded knocked out of you from the gas tank slamming into your chest)
Keep even pressure on the throttle at this point and shift your weight to steer.
Have fun!
Next weeks Lesson: “Removing gravel from underneath your kneecaps.”
Well, not exactly, no. I was commenting on something I had noticed about motorcyclists - everyone is convinced that they could avoid the accident that someone else was in, by dint of superiour reflexes, training, or judgement. It is an interesting phenomenon. I’m suddenly hoping I’m not the only person to have seen this.
I whole heartedly agree that there is no way to say that you’ll never, ever be in an accident. I don’t think I implied otherwise.
That’s my point. You have a lot to lose by being in the way of cars. They have almost nothing to lose by hitting you, and this shows in the way the vast majority of people drive cars. It is your responsibility to make up for their lack of driving ability and attention, and to keep yourself alive. If you crash, it is because, in the end, you failed to prevent the accident. There is nobody else you can count on to prevent the accident. This isn’t to say that it was the “fault” of the motorcyclist. However, if you’re on a bike, and wind up hitting the pavement, at some point, you did something wrong. The wrong thing that you did may pale in comparision to the string of wrong things that the car driver did, but that will be cold comfort to your heirs.
Thanks everybody for the advice. I am really glad to see that nobody has come in here with some gory story about a nasty accident. I have been thinking about this for a long time (hell, the Rider Saftey Course has a 3 month waiting list !)
I still havent decided what kind of bike I will get and believe me, I think I am self-aware enough to not get in too deep. I am pretty tall and relatively fit so I think I could handle a 650 - no way would I think about anything bigger than that. Plus, I’ll see how the 250s at class feel.
In California, bikers are allowed to drive between cars. Since my decision to start riding, I have paid close attention to all the motorcycles I see and have noticed that this practice is very dangerous as there have been numerous times when I didnt notice the rider passing me in my lane until they were already next to me.
I really appreciate all the advice and words of encouragement. I think this will really help increase my quality of life. I’ll let you know how it goes - and keep the comments coming, it has given me more confidence and I can tell that will be important.