Motorcycle statistics: possible to remove the bad examples?

Factual Questions
41

Want a impartial view of your thread Leftfield6?

You requested from the posters on this board, some magic statistics about “good guy riders” to show your wife in an attempt to get her to change her mind about your riding a bike. Apparently you’ve recently married a woman who objects to your riding a bike because she’s concerned about your health and welfare. Instead of understanding, you place your desires above her concerns.

Now, this thread has pointed out that regardless of how good a rider you are, your wife is right about the increase risk you’re taking. She’s justified in her feelings. We’ve pointed out it’s not you, but the ubiquitous idiot driver who is the problem, but that doesn’t change the fact that you’ll be the victim.

I’m betting your wife has not seen this thread.

42

I’ll agree the thread has strayed outside of what I was hoping.

My wife was/is mostly okay with me having a bike for weekend rides, that type of thing. I, in the past, also occasionally used it for commuting, but not that often. Up until recently, I had a 40 plus mile commute that took me through 3 of the worst congestion spots in Atlanta, and even I felt riding the bike was too risky for that type of commute.

Recently I’ve changed jobs to a company located where my commute has become much easier, and, in many ways, more bike friendly. HOV almost all the way, no major congestion points. What also happened around the same time though, is what prompted my wife to express her concern. One morning I left for work on the bike, at almost exactly the same time my wife left for work. We share a commute route for about 6 miles, and during this time, she saw ME ON MY BIKE IN TRAFFIC. Not that I was doing anything wrong at all, she just, for the first time, saw her husband on a motorcycle surrounded by Atlanta traffic. I think “vulnerable” is the word she used.

Vulnerable? Yep, bikes are. No argument. BTW, she is still fine with me having a bike, just not so okay with commuting to work on it. My original intent here was to see if anyone with better google-fu than me could find links to statistics showing what the real world risk is to someone who exhibits the riding behavior that I do. Gear, training, practice, etc.

Seems like that level of detail isn’t out there. Also BTW, not recently married, been married for 20+ years, and yes, she has seen this thread. She asked me to start it.

Okay, I think we are done here. Thanks to everyone who participated. Back to your regularly scheduled threading.

43

From the OP:

It has been pointed out that a rider can skew his personal odds down from 7X; Not all motorcycle accidents are fatal; and wanting nothing bad to happen to him is incompatible with his drawing breath. If she’s basing her feelings on a rational analysis of the situation, then no, her feelings are not justified.

That said, it’s unlikely she’s basing her feelings on a rational analysis, and so attempting to change her mind with data is probably futile.

44

Machine Elf - I think you missed the line in where the OP said…referring to his wife…
*She is absolutely petrified by her perception of the danger. *

When a wife says “I’d rather you not” it has a deeper meaning. Ask any married guy.

45

Oh yeah!:smiley: And that “deeper meaning” is usually, “You had better NOT, if you know what’s good for you!” :wink:

46

Your wife is right.

7 times as risky is a gross understatement. When calculated on a passenger mile basis the fatality rate for motorcycles is at least 30 times higher. The 7 times rate is based on the fact that most motorcyclists don’t ride that much. If anything the current rate is higher since driving cars gets safer every year. I just looked it up and it up to 35 times higher for 2007.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810990.PDF

Even a skillful rider who is never drunk and always wears their helmet is still taking extraordinary risks. It is your choice to take those risk, but don’t pretend those risks don’t exist and don’t bullshit you loved ones.

47

“Motorcycle statistics: possible to remove the bad examples?”

The obvious gag response to the thread title is, “Don’t they do that themselves?”

On other fora folks race to be the first to post stupid jokes like that. :smiley:

Seriously, what Machine Elf said about the Hurt Report.

48

Have a look at the newer MAIDS report here:

49

Being a married guy myself, I’m inclined to agree with this, but it’s a totally separate issue from your insightful :rolleyes: analysis of motorcycle crash statistics.

50

I commute on my motorcycle daily. I’m also an epidemiologist, so I look at statistics in a more sophisticated way than many people.
Clearly, there is no such thing as a “fender bender” on a motorcycle. All crashes or spills are serious. But there is a lot you can do, including wearing ATGATT and choosing your route, to reduce the risks. You can’t simply compare helmet-wearers to non-helmet-wearers to get an idea of how helmets protect you because non-helmet-wearers are a different kind of population from those who wear helmets. It’s difficult to tease out comparison stats. I will say that, riding my motorcycle, I am much more mindful of the risks of being on the road than when I’m in a car. And I avoid freeways at rush hour, etc.
Anyway, not sure how helpful this is, but I have to say riding my bike is the best part of my day.

51

Agreed!

52

I’ve been riding bikes over 30 years. damn. Most of it here in Atlanta.

Anyway, the old fart down the street from me when I was a teen told me something. There’s two kinds of bikers. Them that’s been down, and them that’s going down. I suspect he had 50+ years riding at that point, but I refused to believe it. I’m too careful, too good, and too paranoid to let anyone “get” me. My riding is safe and sane, no wheelies or stoppies or stupidity like that.

It’s not about you and your gear. It’s the assholes in a car who “didn’t see him”, or worse, the ones who don’t care.

I got tagged by two hit-and-run drivers in the space of 6 months a few years back. The first was minor with no injuries - Spalding Drive in D-woody. The other was in Buckhead, rush hour. VERY BAD.

I didn’t ride in town for 5 years, except on the Ural. No one will hit you on that, because it’s just too damned ugly or interesting. Where people will pull right out in front of me in the Yukon or on a bike, if I’m on the Ural, they just stop and stare. Perhaps the machinegun helps.

I tried using my scooters to commute from Gwinnett to Buckhead for a while, but people are just too damn crazy at rush hour. My Ducatis can get out of the way, but not the scooters.

I feel for you, and I wish I could find the stats you’re looking for. The one’s that don’t include the “hey-watch this” crowd. I **would **like to find honest stats on responsible riders and how often a car takes them out, because that’s the only kind of wreck we have.

Do what I did. Give up the city riding. It’s no fun there for the most part.

Get up Saturday morning, head up past Dalonehga on 60 to 2 Wheels Only and grab a burger. Then come play in the mountains, across 180 to Blood Mountain, over to Brasstown Bald - you get the picture.
Come swing through the mountains away from the 5 million idiots with cars & you will last longer & get laid more. (happy wife)

Isn’t that what motorcyling is all about anyway?:smiley:

53

I’ve been in a five-MPH accident on a motor scooter. (Was just learning to ride it, and a fence snuck up on me. Stupid fence.) Not quite the same as a motorcycle, of course, but the scooter wasn’t damaged and I only suffered a modest bruise to my thumb. I picked the scooter back up, and kept riding.

54

This is quite interesting, though it’s hard to say how much is applicable to American motorcycling and roads.

It’s unclear to me how these case studies were selected, so I have to wonder about a selection bias right off the bat. But it is unambiguously scary (to me) that more than 11% of the motorcycle accidents they studied resulted in one at least one fatality.

Section 4 at least touches on the questions asked in the OP. It is an attempt to assign responsibility fo the accidents to the drivers or to other factors. A considerable majority of the accidents are caused by either the drivers of other vehicles or environmental factors. I think this argues against the OPs theory that care and defensive driving significantly reduce the risks. But I’m not a statistician, so what do I know?