Well that depends on where you live, of course. Lane Splitting is perfectly legal in California - I may appear to be an asshole, but legally so. 
To the OP: Sorry to hear about your friend. I had composed a post about safe driving practices and all that, but Hampshire said it all, so I’ll just echo his comments.
I wish I could say that I agreed with you, but I have an abysmal driving record and I’ve left a considerable amount of myself on the road just riding a bicycle, so there’s a pretty good chance that I would have jacked myself up on a motorcycle. There’s always the possibility that I would have been more cautious, but this made me look back at myself and take some stock. It’s probably for the best that I don’t have a bike.
I’m with you on this. My OP was written while I was in a bit of a funk. Nevertheless, all things being equal a motorcyclist is in much greater danger than a car driver. That’s really hard to dispute. Going from that, I considered an accident like this inevitable, and inevitably I’ll be going to another funeral if my coworkers don’t clean up their act and be more careful. The last part of the OP was more a bitter reflection than a condemnation, and most people realized that, except for friend Pedro, who decided to cuss me out, thus earning the rolleyes.
Thanks for the offer. Now is not really the time to reconsider, but that day may come sometime down the road. Certainly not anytime soon, though.
My problem with all this, is everyone seems to think drivers have a special problem seeing motorcycles. I’ve never driven a motorcycle, but all the accidents I’ve had involved people who were looking somewhere else and just ran into the car I was driving, and one person who claimed he couldn’t see me despite the fact that the car I was driving was bright yellow. One of the recent accidents around here that claimed the life of a motorcyle rider made me decide I’d never ride one. The rider came around a curve to find a truck stopped in the middle of the road. He hit the trailer and was thrown off of the bike and killed. He was probably only driving about twenty miles an hour. Had he been in a car, he probably would have been uninjured. That’s the problem I have with motorcycles. The penalty for a mistake is much harsher than it is for any other form of transportation.
Same here. The pressure waves from unbaffled Harleys actually cause my eye to flutter. I hate loud pipes.
Yup. One of the good things about California. The thing that people don’t seem to consider is that they don’t really want to hit a motorcycle, and motorcyclists don’t want to get hit. If a rider is coming up between lanes, it’s a safe bet that he has assessed the situation and has determined that there is ample room to safely pass – unless a cager does something stupid.
In traffic I ride with my high beams on. And my R1 is bright red. And I get cut off almost every day. (Like Spiny Norman, I ride 66 miles per day in L.A. traffic.) We’re not even safe in the carpool lanes, since people commonly disregard the double- and quadruple-yellow lines. It’s worse at the legal access points.
It’s not that difficult, cagers. Most cars have two side-view mirrors and a rear-view mirror. Your head is on a swivel mount known as a ‘neck’. I was trained, as a driver and as a pilot, to be aware of traffic. When you’re operating a vehicle – any vehicle – it’s your job to look out for other traffic. Talk on the phone if you like. Eat your lunch if you like. Talk to your friends or sing along to the stereo if you like. But it is your job and your duty to maintain situational awareness. If you can’t do that, then you don’t belong on the road. That’s not ‘special accommodations’, yellowval. It’s your job.
We riders have to put up with a lot. If it’s hot we don’t have air conditioning. (And some bikes can get uncomfortably hot at low speeds too.) If it rains we get wet. If it’s cold we freeze, often despite our clothing. Joins in the road can upset a motorcycle. We put up with the discomfort because we like riding. We like cheap transportation, too. We like, where it’s legal, not being stuck in traffic. We are vigilant because we know the cagers are too busy being left-seat passengers instead of drivers. We can’t do anything about the weather or the condition of the roads or the heat our rides generate. We can’t do anything about inattentive drivers either. But we shouldn’t have to. Anyone who operates any vehicle – especially cagers – owes it to everyone else to pay attention.
Airman Doors, I’m sorry for your loss. And I’m also sorry for the shit you are catching in this thread. Alas, when you point out the elephant in the living room, that motorcylcles are inherently dangerous vehicles, it invariably brings out a parade of insecure/defensive motorcyclists looking to shout you down.
Facts are facts. An accident that would be a simple fender-bender in a car has a good chance of being deadly if one of the parties is on a bike. (Helmet or no. See OP.) Since you can’t control what other drivers do, if you get on a bike you are taking a serious risk, no matter how cautious a rider you may be.
And today’s newspaper brings word of yet another athlete wrecking a motorcycle. Tragically, this one died.
And once again, the same wreck in a car would have been a minor fender-bender.
Any lurkers out there thinking of getting a bike? Do yourself a favor and forget it.
A fact that most of us acknowledge. Nobody is trying to shout anyone down nor are we insecure or anything else. Yes, the damn things are dangerous. Life is dangerous.
Thanks Spiny, I’ll check out our local shops and see if they stock them.
As for “Think Bike”, the idea came from this website, a local campaign. Click on “About” for the philosophy. Interesting that they quote the Hurt Report, an LA based research piece.
Just my lucky day. I’ll wear my “cussed out an asshole” badge with pride while I ride my donorcycle waiting to kick it. That’s offensive but it’s the same tired crap I’ve heard countless times before. Normally I wouldn’t even bother with that. What strikes me as despicable is using your friend’s death to score a point, which is this brilliant gem: Motorcycles are dangerous vehicles and you don’t think that anyone should risk riding one (those who do are just insecure fools).
So, to conclude, I’m very sorry that Donald died doing something he enjoyed.
And I thank you, Airman, for your brilliant insight on the risks and rewards of motorcycles.
:rolleyes:
Sorry to hear about your loss Airman Doors. And I can’t see how discussing the risks of motorcycling doesn’t honor your friend’s memory.
Alas, the situation that your friend found himself in doesn’t appear to be unusual. According to a 1981 study, “The failure of motorists to detect and recognize motorcycles in traffic is the predominating cause of motorcycle accidents. The driver of the other vehicle involved in collision with the motorcycle did not see the motorcycle before the collision, or did not see the motorcycle until too late to avoid the collision.”
In general, “Motorcycle riders are around 29 times more likely to be fatally injured than operators of other vehicles travelling the same distance”. [At least in Australia].
Now I must admit that I’d prefer to live in a world where some ride motorcycles. At the same time, given my god-awful balance and coordination, they are not for me.
You have to be pretty fucking dense to get that from what I said. First the OP was not discussing anything and second it does not honour his deceased friend’s memory to imply that he made himself a stain on the road.
Ah. “Insecure” means “someone who disagrees with you”.
Sure, and if your car has an altercation with a semi, you’re probably history. So you shouldn’t go near the road on anything more vulnerable than an Abrams. You shouldn’t have anything sharp in the house. Every household appliance should run on 12v. And so on. Eliminate all risk of death and serious injury from your existence. :rolleyes:
We all choose for ourselves what risks to run. How many thousand miles should I expect to rack up before totalling myself, again?
I was going to ask spoke- to show me his\her parade of motorcyclists until I bumped into this statement. It is simplistic and just feeds into the donorcycle discourse. Motorcycles can be dangerous and deserve respect. This should be emphasized, especially to inexperienced riders. It’s very easy to roll on the gas but not so easy to do a controlled emergency stop from high speeds. And small unforeseen elements, like debris on the road, can take you down fast. On the extreme you could highside on a powerful bike, land on your neck with the bike on top of you and you’re pretty much done for. It doesn’t take an idiot for that to happen.
Whaaaaaaat???
Could you please type louder?
Regrettably, my husband has to attend the funeral of one of his employees, or for one of their families, at least annually for a motorcycle related incident. At one time, he had 1 officer dead, 1 on life support and another paralyzed from the waist down from three separate incidences in the same week. 2 weeks later, he had a friend from college shatter his wrist in an accident. 2 times it was a hit-run, 2 times it was user error in some manner.
I’m not saying people should not be able to ride, but implying that the risk factor for bikers is the same for automobiles is a little disengenous. It is a statistical fact.
A two-wheeled motorcycle is inherently more difficult to operate and more unstable than a four-wheeled passenger vehicle. A motorcycle offers riders almost no protection in a crash. Crash data confirms these observations. NHTSA estimates that 80 percent of motorcycle crashes injure or kill a motorcycle rider, while only 20 percent of passenger car crashes injure or kill an occupant (NHTSA, 2003, p. 3). For each mile of travel in 2003, motorcycle riders were more than six times more likely to be injured in a crash, and more than 31 times more likely to die, than passenger car occupants (NHTSA, 2005a, Tables 7 and 10). NHTSA’s projections for 2004 estimate that the 3,927 motorcycle rider fatalities accounted for 9 percent of all traffic fatalities and the 76,000 motorcycle rider injuries were 3 percent of all traffic crash injuries (NHTSA, 2005b, slides 14 and 15).http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/airbags/Countermeasures/pages/Chapt5/5MotorcycleSafety.htm
As a cyclist, I can’t let this go.
Point the first: there is no evidence to suggest that bike lanes are any safer than roads without them. Not a shred. Poorly designed bike lanes (the majority) can very likely increase the danger to cyclists riding in them. And bike lanes don’t go everywhere.
Point the second: cycling is at least as safe, in terms of fatalities per hours of exposure, as driving a car, and probably slightly to significantly safer. Driving a car is statistically much safer than driving a motorcycle.
Also, a critical reading of your linked thread has led me to the carefully considered conclusion that you’re an idiot who just has something against innocent cyclists. Cyclists (especially experienced, avid road cyclists) are the most harmless, possibly the safest road users you will encounter. Leave us alone.
Getting a motorcycle seems to be the rite of passage for the guys in my family. My brother got one when he became old enough drive, and my Dad’s been riding motorcycles his whole life (one of my favorite pics of him is of him straddling his motorcycle, Afro and bell-bottoms just as big as they want to be, with my sister holding onto the handles in front of him). I had an uncle and a cousin on opposite ends of the family who both died in motorcycle accidents. No one in my family has ever died in a car accident, however.
There are two things I’m scared about whenever the phone rings: getting news that my mother has had a heart attack and getting news that my father’s been a motorcycle accident.
I have no problem with folks riding their motorcycles. But if you decide to drive one, make sure your family is going to be cared for just in case the odds catch up with you. It’s selfish to make other people suffer for the risks you deliberately bring on yourself. This soap-box message goes to everyone who engages in high-risks activities, not just motorcycle enthusiasts.
If you aren’t looking for EVERYONE that might possibly come into contact with your vehicle (and this goes for people who drive cars, trucks, motorcycles, mopeds, bicycles, pedestrians - anyone who might be in a roadway or crossing one) you do NOT belong on the road. Driving anything is about safety - yours and everyone else’s on the road. You are not driving a car, you are driving a weapon on wheels. So you better fucking watch for motorcycles and mopeds, as well as other cars and trucks, semis, and people crossing the fucking street, or you’re going to wind up in prison, or dead, for your neglegence. It’s not even a matter of courtesy, it’s a matter of NOT WANTING TO KILL PEOPLE OUT OF YOUR OWN STUPIDITY.
That said, I was always taught to check my blind spot, at least to glance over and make sure that I wasn’t about to merge into someone. I always do, and it’s saved my life on the freeway a few times. It’s called common sense, which unfortunately isn’t so common. Also, if some of the drivers on the road would USE THEIR FUCKING BLINKERS, anyone in your blind spot would know to get the fuck out of the way, post haste.
~Tasha
I am not really sure what this post has become, or if and what the argument is about. Yes, it sucks that most motorcycle accidents are caused by poor drivers, and yes it sucks that motorcyclists are likely to sustain significantly more severe or catastrophic injuries than had they been driving an automobile. It also sucks that many motorcyclists are younger so the loss of life is particularly troublesome and emotionally painful.
However, the facts are what the facts are, and at least people who ride motorcycles (on this board) appear to understand the risks. I worked in brain injury rehab for almost a decade and saw the long-term consequences for those who survived brain injuries from all forms of accidents. One (un?)fortunate thing about motorcycle accidents is that at high speeds, the only benefit of helmet use is that it allows for an open coffin… I now do research on concussion and brain injury and recently collected data (soon to be submitted for publication) comparing motorcyclists who do and don’t wear helmets on their safety beliefs and practices… the results are shocking and reveal a very naive and egocentric non-helmeted driver who believes little in the importance or utility of helmets. Of course, this does not, nor is it intended to apply or generalize to all motorcyclists, but when you combine testosterone-charged young men with super-powered machines between their legs and limited frontal inhibition, you often have predictable outcomes.
Here in Pennsylvania, we are dealing with the effects of the repeal of mandatory helmet laws… I fear we will continue to see and hear about catastropic injuries from slower and less severe collisions, and this argument about risk and reasons will continue to be a sematic one.