The majority of motorcycle crashes where I’ve known the person have involved deer, though I doubt this reflects national statistics.
Agreed, deer suck as drivers, never use their turn signals and they are constantly blowing through stop signs.
The point of the Lid is to protect your face and brain, as every real M/C rider knows you are going down it is a question of when not if, yes my fullface restricts my vision a tad, so I wear the half lid around the hood FF when on the highway/long distance. I simply do not buy the insurance stat. Wear a lid, wear leathers its as simple as wearing a condom and the reason is the same
Capt Kirk
I’ve been riding for twenty years and had plenty of close calls as well as an accident or two. I would never ever trade that last second of max-effort braking for ’laying it down’. I suspect that if I had time to make the decision to lay it down, I had time to stop or swerve, at least enough to substantially minimize the impact.
Despite being comfortable on the road and on dirt, and knowing how to slide the rear and ‘back it in’, I don’t think I even know how to lay it down. I don’t see how that information would come to me in the split second before an accident. I don’t see how your average street rider that doesn’t have dirt or supermoto experience would accomplish that kind of move either.
Every single rider I’ve know who’s claimed to lay it down has used the term as a face saving euphemism for ‘I lost control and low-sided’. YMMV.
If the helmet you’re wearing is preventing you from seeing properly, or is such a distraction it is a safety hazard, then you’re wearing the wrong helmet. There are many high quality full face helmets with wide openings and distortion free visors that allow a full range of peripheral vision. They come in a variety of shapes and sizes to fit all heads. If one is uncomfortable, try a different brand, they often have their preferred shell shape.
Adults have the right (in many states, at the moment) to choose not to wear a helmet. I reserve the right to call those people idiots. Saying “I enjoy the wind through my hair, and the consequences be damned” is honest, if not safety minded. Motorcycling, like all activities, can be viewed as an exercise in risk management. Introductory classes (for about the first six months of riding), safety gear, strict sobriety, defensive riding, knowing your limits, high visibility clothing, etc. all are methods of reducing risk, but they aren’t proof against danger or cars.
I only have two questions for pullin, after your son has passed all the legal stuff, if he chooses to ride without the helmet or gear, what are you going to do?
Did you teach him that the pilot in the right has no responsibility to lookout for or avoid pilots who are in the wrong?
IMO, safety gear is for protection from others, if it is because of your decisions & choices, then your case of stupid can & probably will kill you.
Insurance rates for auto drivers are not changed by any number of expensive head injuries of motorcycle enthusiast. Total straw man IMO.
I have been riding a long time & I have not ever seen an single motorcycle wreck that was not the fault of the rider. Stuff on the road is not an excuse. Sudden mechanical failure, = bad pre-flight. One in a million chance, if the bike is not abused beyond what it was designed for.
Racing does not count so do not go there.
The hottest race bike won’t hurt you if you do not ride over your capabilities. “Were you just around this track and know that there is no sand, oil, babies, the corner is not a decreasing radius, etc…” Oh, wait, you are an public road that you have never been on or have not been on in weeks or more… But is sure is fun going fast isn’t it? So I need protection from you because I am only going the speed limit when you slam into me from the rear.
The younger the rider, the more likely to try to race on public roads. Pushing should be done on a track designed for that and full on & + more safety gear should be used if you feel the need.
Protect you from me = good.
Protect me from me = bad.
My Dad used to say, a 6 year old boy will not step off a cliff but he will climb on a rail at a cliff. Seems people of all ages will do that.
IMO, it is not about protecting the brain but about using it.
I will not change anyone’s mind about anything, especially in this thread. Do not assume from my comments that I am against safety gear or helmets or that I don’t use them…
I am concerned about the fear mongers that want to convince everyone that their fear should be everyone’s fear. Also those that have made mistakes in thinking and claim that the gear saved them much pain. I wonder how many changed their riding on the spot and had never had a single vehicle accident since?
I may chose to die for you.
I will not die because of you.
The sanctity of life isn’t.
Now this, I can believe. Ever lock up the front brake due to a bit of diesel fuel or oil on the road (or too much right hand)? That will lay you down nice and quick, if you can’t get the wheel rolling again. Been there, done that. The current bike has ABS.
40-year rider, here, and I agree with this completely. I’ve never been in, heard of or can imagine a (reallistic) situation where “laying it down” would be the best option.
Maybe in the next 40…
To be fair, I know a few people that ‘laid their bike down’ by coming to a stop and putting their food on a rock or some sand or the asphalt was uneven (or they went out and got a bike that was way too big for a first bike) and rather then twist an ankle or hurt themselves in some other way they literally did lay the bike down as gently as they could, sometimes less gently then others. But either way trying to do as little damage to themselves and the bike as possible.
Of course, I suppose you could still call that losing control and low-siding.
For those of you that don’t ride. When you put your foot down on a stick or a rock and it slides out from under you you very quickly find out how much the bike weighs when it’s at a 45 degree angle and you’re trying to push it back up with one leg. I had this happen twice. Once when I came to a stop on some gravel and once when I thought my kickstand was down and it wasn’t (I’m really good at checking now). Luckily I was able to push it back up both times before it hit the ground.
50 year rider here, so what? Yeah, I’m 68 not counting some real\ early stuff. snerk
I’m still sore from going where I should not have last weekend. 5 of us were silly nuff to go there. Only three had the skills & I was not one of them. No one knew it would get that bad that fast…
But…
Several places the only way to stop a motorcycle before you got to the bottom was to lay it down & hope the trees would stop you.
Ride in the snow? They do in Alaska.
Ever get not get off a bad oily road just as the rain starts?
You guys are what I am talking about. Using your heads.
Oh wait, you did not say you have never gone down, just that you could not imagine… Ahhh I see…
Rand Rover, headlight modulators are legalin all 50 states.
[QUOTE=Joey P]
Yeah when it first shows up, then I find myself looking at the opposite curb, the car in front of me or the yellow dividing line…anything but the bike itself. Use the normal headlight and it’s not an issue. I can look (more or less) right at it.
When on a motorcycle do you really want me to be aware of your presence but actively looking away from you?
[/QUOTE]
Joey P, I’m going to agree with runner pat on this one. I’d rather you know I’m there and have to look away a little bit (odds are you are not totally looking away from me) than have you not know I’m there at all and drive as if there is empty road where I am.
Is it time to bring up bike maintenance? Besides the usual oil and water levels, every biker should at the very least know how to adjust their chain, keep it lubricated, and know how to inspect the chain for damage.
If the bike gets used a lot in mucky conditions, something like a Scottoiler or similar will keep the chain lubricated. (or dive up with chains and get a shaft drive.)
Never go out with low tread on the tyres. I’ve seen bikers on other forums proudly displaying pictures of the tyres they wore down to the canvas. Tyres have wear indicators, if they are approaching the limit then replace the tyres.
The workshop manual, be it Haynes, Clymer or better still, the original factory manual may be a good investment.
I have no horse in this race/thread. I read it because I’ve always wanted the opportunity to ride a bike, but never have. I appreciate every single post because its a POV I can learn from, should I eve get that chance…
That’s how I was a few years back so I’ll say the same thing to you that I say to everyone else that I hear that from. Go take the MSF class*. Sure, you could probably find a friend with a small bike to let you zip down the block**, but if you take the class you’ll get a few hours with a certified instructor or two watching your every move. It’ll give you a good handle on what it takes to ride. Not only that, if you are out with a friend that has a bike you’ll feel a lot more confident in saying “Hey, can I take it around the block once.”
One of the things I loved about the MSF class is the couple of times that we would finish an exercise and the teacher would say “Now, most self taught riders can’t do that”
*The tech school by me offers it. Harley Davidson also offers a more or less equivalent class that (I believe) is approved by the state.
**If someone would let you ride down the block, it’s really not that big of a deal on small bike, but I wouldn’t attempt making a U-turn to bring it back.
I agree with Joey P 100% on this. You will get more saddle time than just taking your buddies bike up and down the street and have a better idea if riding is actually for you or not without having to shell out for a starter bike.
That’s what I did. One of the things I always wanted to do was learn to ride a motorcycle. I took the class, kinda sorta hoping I wouldn’t really like it (I’m a bit impulsive)…loved it. Two weeks later I looked at bikes hoping they’d be too much, nope, right in my price range. Checked on insurance, hoping that it would be really expensive, nope, about $11 a month. I was going to get a similar bike to what we used in the class which was a Honda Rebel 250 but the sales guy made a good point. He asked me if I was comfortable on it and I told him I was. Then he pointed out that if I was comfortable on that bike with only a few hours under my belt I’m likely to outgrow it on a few weeks. I’m glad he told me that. Just a few weeks after taking that class I got a Honda Shadow 750. It took me a few weeks to get used to it, but that was a few years ago and I still love it. Haven’t even thought about upgrading (not seriously anyways). I’m really glad I didn’t get a Rebel. When I stop back at the bike shop and see those 250’s on the sales floor they look like toys.
Agree 100% with everyone who recommended the MSF course(s). I would strongly urge anyone thinking of taking up riding to attend one of their courses first. A lot of good introductory info, and plenty of saddle time in a controlled environment with experienced riders as instructors to supervise and give excellent advice for beginners.
As far as what to wear: it’s a trade-off. Going full gear head-to-toe to putt-putt around town (typical speeds 35-40mph) in the summer time can be brutal, and possibly ruin the motorcycle riding experience. IME, regular clothes and a standard helmet (not full-face) is sufficient.
However, if you are hitting the open road/highway, or any road with typical speeds 45mph+, then full-gear (with full-face helmet) is highly recommended, comfort-level be damned: road rash and broken bones are much more uncomfortable than a few gallons of sweat or a rock to the face at highway speeds.
Regardless, wear a helmet, and decent goggles if you don’t have a full-face.
The best piece of advice I got from the MSF course was this:
You are invisible to every car on the road and every car on the road hates motorcycles.
In other words, take what you know about defensive driving in a car times 100. You can’t daydream on a bike. You can’t sightsee on a bike like you can in a car. You can’t fiddle with the radio or (og forbid) take a cell phone call through a headset on a motorcycle.
Pretend that everyone else on the road hates you and pay attention. See some dork coming too fast up to the stop sign ahead of you? Start slowing down just in case. See a moron talking on his cell phone and oblivious to everyone else? Keep your distance. See a car ahead that’s about to turn in front of you? Pay attention just in case they do something stupid.
Although it’s not 100%, this piece of advice kept what could have been a catastrophe a little more manageable.
And if it’s not cars, it’s bugs. A junebug to the knuckles at 50 mph feels just like a stone. Everytime I think about not wearing my helmet I think about how much it hurts to get hit in the hands or arms with bugs or rocks and then I look at my facemask. Yup, gonna wear it. Also, my ears would get really cold and I’m not a big fan of the sound of the wind tearing past my head like that, it’s just too loud for me.
Ex (and future) racer, so I’ve been down plenty! Just never by design.