Stay tuned for conservative commentators alleging that this is just further evidence of liberal Jews being in league with the anti-Americans at MoveOn and in the Democratic party.
This is an obvious attack on Scylla, and I am ashamed that it has fallen through the cracks of The Straight Dope’s elaborate filtering system.
This post has the tacit endorsement of the Straight Dope staff, readers, and, most likely, of Cecil himself. That they paid for the bandwidth and hosting fees for this post proves that they approve of its message. No apology can possibly be accepted for such an outrageous insult.
Seems the story is dying down in a hurry. Wonder who was the first guy over at the RNC to catch on…
“Uh, you know, guys…we’re calling a lot of attention to this MoveOn.org site. Some of that’s gotta be people who never heard of it before. Is that really a good idea? Some of those ads are pretty darned clever, actually, so I’m wondering…”
Have you checked them out, yet? Think my favorite is the one with the kids giving speeches. If you haven’t checked them out, they’re at
Oh, I did mention that? Well, all right then.
Vote Bush: not as bad as Hitler, when you really think about it.
This is absurd. If they set up a filtering process beforehand, not thinking that someone might make a Godwinizing ad, they may have had simple rules: no nudity, no cussing, no promoting another candidate (the last would deprive them of 501©(3) status). If they assigned this vetting job to a non-self-starter employee, then it’s perfectly understandable that the employee wouldn’t catch the Godwinizing ads.
Scylla, you say they’re responsible for providing bandwidth and hosting to the ad. Let’s think about this for a second. Who has ensured that more people see the ad – MoveOn, or the Republican National Committee? The latter group is also providing bandwidth and hosting to the ad, and they’ve done their damnedest to ensure that it gets wide airplay. They’re not doing it out of any clean motives, and they can’t claim ignorance of what they’re doing. Why, they’re just like the guy who kicks his dog to death to show the cops how the neighbor pushed his dog out of his yard.
Daniel
learning from the Scylla analogy school
For crying out loud, reflect a bit on why anyone would want to make the comparison in the first place. It might have something to do with the roll back of civil liberties and invading other countries. It might have to do with the use of “patriotic” rhetoric to silence all criticism and encourage groupthink. It might be that these are bigger issues than the backlash against those issues.
I think the RNC is just jealous that MoveOn.org, a genuine grassroots organization, got 1500 entires while they have to resort to Astroturf campaigns.
I don’t think they should get much credit for this. Generally the incumbent wants to talk about what kind of a great job he is doing, while the challenger tries to show people how terrible a job he is doing.
Exactly. See above.
Atmosphere is everything. The same ad might inflame people’s passions when presented to a website of partisan Bush bashers as part of a Bush-bashing contest, but yet provoke a negative reaction when presented by the RNC as part of a complaint about negative ads.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it’s the definition of the word. From dictionary.com (emphasis added):
And lest you get away with this crap, you compared Hitler favorably to Bush.
Yes, you apparently think Bush is worse than Hitler.
No, the best thing that you can say about Bush is that he’s not Hitler. Any rational person – regardless of party affiliation – could come up with a laundry list of things that are good about Bush.
It always frightens me when people actually believe this type of hyperbolic vitriol. It might not be a bad idea for you to take a break from MoveOn and expose yourself to some new ideas.
I have a question that might be a slight hijack, please forgive me . . wha tif Bush were Hitler? What if the GOP were declared the only legal political party, and Al Gore, Howard Dean, Elucidator, *Diogenes the Cynic, Michael Moore and all other open Democrats were indefinitely detained? What if gay people were subject to imprisonment or execution? What if Christianity were made the only legal religion and Jews, Muslims, and adherents of other other faced the choice of conversion or death?
In other words, let us say that the most hysterical lefty’s worst nightmare came true and conservatives could reorder the nation as they wished?
Would any of you really mind?
And the sane question goes to the Democrats. If you could muszzle your opponents and end elections permanently, as long as your side ended up in control, would you object?
Does anybody here genuinely believe in democracy and the competition of ideas, or do you wish to silence your opponents and run roughshod over anyone who disagrees with you?
You correctly point out that comparison involved a search for both similarities and differences. This being the case, i don’t see the problem in comparing anyone with Hitler (or with anyone else, for that matter), as long as an honest attempt is made to point out the similarities and the differences
Well, i agree that calling Bush worse than Hitler is just plain silly. However, i think it’s actually an irrational and anti-intellectual position to argue, as people often do, that Hitler and the Holocaust should never be used as referents in any scheme of comparison or any search for historical parallels. Human history contains some pretty awful people and episodes, and while Hitler and the Holocaust are right up there among the worst, i don’t believe that they should be put in an intellectual box marked “Never to be opened.”
Sorry, you’re wrong about that.
Have you been taking lessons from Scylla? MoveOn has explicitly apologized for the appearance of these ads on its website, and has made clear that it has no time for comparisons of Bush and Hitler.
Gobear, i take your point, but silencing one’s opponents and pointing out their errors and misrepresentations are not the same thing. Personally, i believe in absolute freedom of speech, and i’m happy to allow those i disagree with to say anything they please. Hell, i even oppose hate speech laws. But i also reserve the right to call bullshit when i see it, and to expose hypocrisy.
Agreed, but my point was not directed at any one person. In the contemporary political climate, it seems to me that both Left and Right are more interested in the fortunes of their party than in the welfare of the country. Look at how the GOP hindered the Clinton adminstration with legal harrassment and a taxpayer-funded witch hunt. Look at how the Left seizes on setback in Iraq to attack Bush and look at how Bush used 9/11, a traumatic event that should have pulled the nation together, to accomplish his own partisan goals.
I say the hell with the lot of you–I’m voting for President Bartlett!
Age Quod Agis, you share one quality with Bush: a steadfast refusal to appreciate any kind of irony.
Not an American, thus no party affiliation. OTOH, I have no reason to doubt my ‘rationality’ and from my vantage point, I can think of no such “list” of good things about Bush. In fact, I think he’s an asshole through and through.
But do enlighten moi, please.
BTW, Age Quod: Hitler was democratically elected. There’s another difference between Bush and Hitler.
Really, it’s a pretty weak analogy. If they wanted an accurate historical analogy, they’d have to find some callous, spoiled emporer or king who never worked for anything, spent his youth in excess, and later became a war-mongering religious fanatic, despised criticism, sought to punish anyone who disagreed with him, etc. Maybe Caligula? DTC knows Roman history better than me.
Nobody owes the RNC or Age Quod an apology for not showing enough respect for this weasel who cheated his way into the presidency, waged war on the consititution, and led our country into war, while continuing the Republican plot to create a Brazilian type economy. Fuck them. Bush isn’t like Hitler, but they don’t deserve an apology from MoveOn.
I’m mad at MoveOn for being defensive about it. They should have told the RNC to go fuck themselves. That’s the classic problem right now: the right wing manufactures attacks, and the pansy left gets defensive. I wish the left had some backbone. They should tell the RNC that if they want to continue forcing the Bush/Hitler meme at people, go right ahead, but fuck their outrage. Maybe they should stop being outraged because someone attacks Bush and start being outraged over what the fuck is doing our country.
- He has never worn brown shoes with a blue suit.
- He is unfailingly kind and respectful to his mother.
- He has never been known to hold his dog up by its ears.
- uh…ummmmmm…well, uh…
I’d definately mind.
Coming next week: The RNC threatens to file a lawsuit after Mike Delgato of Santa Rosa, CA, posts on his weblog that “Bush is as bad as Hitler, and the GOP is a bunch’a Nazis.” This makes the top of the hour at Fox News, and Scylla bravely goes on the SDMB to defend the RNC against “political toxic waste.”
Cite?