And, as best as Marshall has been able to figure out, here’s what they’re talking about:
Obviously the meaning is there, but there’s a big difference between laying out what appears to be a rational, fact-based case - which is what MoveOn did - and running an add filled with inflammatory language - which is what MoveOn didn’t do, but the Bushies are doing their best to imply that they did, in order to play the victim card, and claim moral equivalance between MoveOn and the SwiftLiars, when no such equivalence exists.
As Marshall adds, “Republicans are having difficulty – willful or otherwise – in distinguishing between negative and/or hard-hitting ads and ones that peddle demonstrable falsehoods – i.e., smears. (You know, it’s that old, hard distinction between ‘mean’ and ‘untrue’.)”
In the old country, during the nasty civil war, there was a military general that was made fun on the fact that he virtually saw no action in combat before the civil war. His cavalier attitude in sending many young soldiers to die, gave him the nickname: “Botas Virgo”: Virgin (combat) boots.
Bush deserves to be called something like that and worse now, when one realizes that this misleader is an even bigger coward when he hides behind front groups, that do now his political dirty work for him. This administration is based on the premise that Bush is never responsible for anything bad, and they are counting on the American people to condone all his missteps and tall lies:
of Tax cuts giving jobs to all,
of wars bringing peace,
of secrecy bringing trust,
and of incompetence bringing security. (Chalabi and Iraq and Iran)
And Bush has the impudence of saying that proven lies from swifters against Kerry, have the same value, as ads from groups mentioning the unpleasant truth that Bush is misleading the nation?
Mr. Bush, I mean, Mr. Virgin boots, you are going to far. As a Hispanic-American that votes (large family), I am ready to work even harder to defeat you in November.
It continually astounds. I see these guys saying these kinds of things, and the jaw drops. Take Hannity, for instance. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen him confronted with contradictory testimony from someone he has to recognize knows his shit, and, like a gentleman, he concedes the point. Then the next time you see him, he re-spews the same nugget of crap as before, as though it never happened!
I don’t know how many times I’ve heard him drop that turd pearl about MoveOn’s “Hitler” ads. He lives in an envioronment made up of “cite!?”, he can’t possibly not know its road apples.
He makes his living not reporting, but reassuring, reassuring people of a set political views that they are right. If he tells them they’re wrong (and sooner or later they must be), they will simply change the channel and he’s out of a job and worse, off TV.
If Hannity and Combes had gone to school together, Hannity ripped off Combes lunch money. “Fork it over, Ichabod, and maybe I won’t kick your butt after all.” A running dog jackal of the ruling class, and a dink on top of it.
But seriously folks…and I do mean grimly serious… A leaked video reveals what Bob Dole really thinks about Bush’s tactics.
“…Democrats now have an unlikely ally in their quest to prove that Bush has a history of these kinds of dirty tricks: Bob Dole…But Dole also made another statement that day, one that hasn’t been aired until now. Of McCain’s charge to President Bush during a 2000 debate—“You should be ashamed”—Dole told Wolf Blitzer, “He was right.” Dole made the remark off-air, while CNN broadcast the Kerry ad called “Old Tricks,” the one featuring McCain’s 2000 debate remarks. The campaign stopped airing it recently at McCain’s request…”
The Bush campaign is having to generate their own negative campaign remarks from the Kerry camp apparently. If Kerry won’t do negative campaign ads, they’ll just pretend he did.
I have an idea. Every time the Bush people accuse Kerry of some nonsense, maybe Kerry should make hay out of it. His next ad should be:
“President Bush’s campaign claims that they are not trying to poison pregnant women. What would prompt them to say such a thing? What are they trying to hide? If you or someone you love is pregnant, don’t you want to know for sure?”
Oh, I have missed my calling…
BTW, whichever rep from the Bush Campaign was on Wolf Blitzer on Friday night, August 27, he claimed that Michael Moore sat next to Theresa Heinz-Kerry during the Democratic Convention. Wolf had to correct him. He seemed not to want to be corrected, but Wolf Blizter told him that he was there and that MM sat next to the Carters.
It’s sad that people like you, making statements like that, do more to help the Bush campaign than anything Bush could do. I suppose that at a place like Straight Dope, where you’re pretty much preaching to the choir, it’s no big deal. But if you’re still cross-posting or copying from other boards, you’re putting out there the laughable assertion that Moveon.org is “basically factual”. It’s almost like Nazis claiming the moral high ground by condemning communists. Nobody other than the most partisan hack believes that either party is more honest or less unscrupulous than the other. Nobody other than the most brain-dead thumb-sucker misses the irony of your negative attacks on negativity. But the main thing is, nobody gives a shit. Nobody cares that Bush popped your balloon while you watched in horror from your highchair. Your incessant whining over nothing just reeks of poor loser. When you act like a loser, people assume you’re a loser. And when a loser defends Kerry, it paints Kerry as a loser as well. Quite honestly, the best way you can help Kerry at this point is just to shut the fuck up.
Gee, that’s a lot of words there Liberal, but no challenge to the idea that Move On is basically factual.
I’ve seen the video of the little kids working to pay off the debt. Humorous, makes a point, and based in fact. Seen videos of individuals expressing their opinion to the camera. Haven’t seen much else that they have done.
I’m ready to believe you, but you need to show me why I should.
The fact that you blather on for a whole paragraph, only to be left holding your dick in your hand at the end makes me lean towards the idea that evidence may not be forthcoming.
Well, I know that you’re lying and wouldn’t change your mind no matter what evidence was offered, but for the benefit of people who really want to know, one thing that Moveon.Org is doing is using data more than a year old and taken from a labor union to say that the Bush administration has lost more than 3 million jobs (Cite), when that number has already been cut nearly in half and was for jobs in a particular sector (manufacturing) while jobs in other, higher paying and faster growing sectors, are growing (Cite). Again, I don’t believe for an instant that you care about the facts, since you are a partisan hack who sees a post by me and puts his brain in auto-disagreement mode. But the notion that Moveon.org nobly distances itself from anti-Bush attack ads is equally laugable. In fact, they hand out awards for them. (Cite.)
Secondly, the information about job losses is apparently erroneous, as far as I know, and should be corrected. They do cite BLS stats through 2003, but it should be sufficient to say that he’s lost 1,000,000. However, all of that information appears to be quite dated, so it should be updated or removed. Notice how old the charges against him are, and the Bush in 30 Seconds campaign was so last year.
Secondly, yes I saw your cite that a proportion of a proportion of the jobs being created are high paying. What is the nature of the overall job creation. Why should it be considered a success that some of the jobs are better?
Third, your first and third cites are to the same fucking site, you disingenuous piece of shit. Got any current claims, made this fucking year, by Move On that you want to debunk?
Also, try to stop being a deceitful fuck with your duplicated cites. Really poor form.
They’re two different pages from, um, the fucking organization we’re talking about, snotface. Since they’re both accessible this fucking year (one being the front fucking page, and the other being a fucking link directly from it), you must be asserting that Moveon.org has abandoned its own fucking website. Here’s what they fucking say:
But I see no reason to believe that certain people within both parties are more honest than other people within those parties. I believe that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are not trustworthy. I have a lot more confidence in the integrity of Colin Powell and John Warner.
If there has been a thread about “the lies of moveon.org” I haven’t seen it. But if there has been a lot of evidence that directly contradicts what they have stated, I would like to know about it.