Moviegoers Sue Theater Companies Over Commercials

pravnik: “Judges are loathe to tinker with things best controlled through market forces with creative readings of contract law.”

I don’t argue that this case has a high chance of success. But I do want to say that judges’ tendency to interpret contract law in a customary has nothing to do with a privileging of “market forces” (except where the judge in question is an ideologue steeped in the quasi-religion of market fundamentalism). Contract law is itself part of the force of the market in the sense that the market entirely depends on the rule of law. Judges will enforce that law when and where they see it violated: not because they adhere to some fantasy of the market as magically isolated from the law.

Sorry, that should have been “judges’ tendency to interpret contract law in a customary way has nothing to do with a privileging of 'market forces.”

Not just the late starting time, but also what was done with that time. They could have sued if there was NOTHING being shown also, but they didn’t. They sued because they were forced to watch something they didn’t want to/hadn’t been told about/and didn’t expect.

Why not? If the people suing don’t feel they are harmed by trailers, then they don’t sue for them. They do, however, feel they are harmed by being a captive audience for commercials. In addition, I think the theater’s defense for the trailer scenario is that it is so widely done that the contract with the ticket includes the trailers, but not commercials, which is a relatively new, and not widely known, event.

Yes, movies DO need to be advertised at movie theaters. At least until everyone in America has a 16:9 television set with a several- hundred-watt surround sound setup. There is no way to translate the scale of a film to television right now unless you spend several thousand dollars on electronics, and even then it’s not always as good.

Please don’t compare trailers at the movies with commercials. Trailers have been shown at the movies for decades, and honestly, have you ever seen as big an outcry about trailers as you have for commercials?

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No, you don’t NEED to advertise at a theater. Given the wide appeal of teleivison I think trailers are completely unnecessary. Sure, I like them but it isn’t like I won’t hear about a movie without them. I don’t see movies all that often so most of the trailers I do see are on television.

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The scale doesn’t have to be translated. We all already know that it is going to be bigger and sound better at the theater.

I will compare them because at their heart they are both simply advertisements. The first television advertisement I saw at the theater was at Teen Wolf about 16 years ago. Anybody who goes to the movies today shouldn’t be shocked to see a commercial from television. They used to show little cartoons encouraging people to go to the lobby and purchase snacks. What’s the difference between that and a coca-cola ad?

Marc

I hope that the outcome of the lawsuit is the removal of the ads to prevent lawsuits by theater companies. Other than that, I don’t give a shit.

I never thought of previews as advertisement, although of course they are. I always viewed them as entertainment, and sometimes the previews were the best part of going to the movies. And they made that voice-over guy, “the voice of God,” very rich.

It would appear the trailers are mandatory for the theatre to show: They are contractually obliged to show them.

See this post by ArchiveGuy for a fuller explanation.

You seem to be implying that judges see the rule of law as clearly black and white without regard to any externalities, and that they apply the law in a mechanical fashion to the facts of a case without regard to value judgments or social factors that may be involved outside of the pleadings. That’s just not the case. Judges don’t operate in a contextual vacuum.

In a case like this both sets of pleadings may well be valid interpretations of contract law. They could vaildily choose one or the other and be within their legal discretion. When this happens policy considerations, such as whether the consumer’s claim should be considered a breach of contract or whether this type of complaint is better addressed through the politics of supply and demand, are part of the calculus of legal decisionmaking. Judges most certainly are aware of the fact that they are not merely applying the law in a rote fashion, they are setting economic policy. That’s why I say given a choice between accepting a creative interpretation of the law and leaving a situation alone as best handled through market forces or legislative means, judges will tend to do the latter.

“You seem to be implying that judges see the rule of law as clearly black and white without regard to any externalities, and that they apply the law in a mechanical fashion to the facts of a case without regard to value judgments or social factors that may be involved outside of the pleadings.”

No, that wasn’t my argument, pravnik. I am well aware the rule of law is never black and white and that, on the contrary, interpretations of the law change over the course of time along with historical contexts.

“That’s why I say given a choice between accepting a creative interpretation of the law and leaving a situation alone as best handled through market forces or legislative means, judges will tend to do the latter.”

And what I’m trying to say is that embedded in this statement is a particular assumption that, from your view, may seem matter of fact but, as I see it, reflects a belief that not all people, including judges, accept. To wit, the idea that a ruling on contract law represents interference in “market forces,” rather than a component of market forces, reflects a particular ideological belief–a dogmatic and (in my view quite naive) laissez-faireism that many reject. As I see it, a judge will rule based on whether s/he sees a legitimate breach of contract. And the legitimacy of that breach–or the lack thereof–will have (and indeed should have) nothing to do with the (erroneous) assumption that market forces stand magically outside of the law and are “best” left that way.

Consider this analogy : Theater company A contracts with Customer X to show kids movies on the occasion of X’s child’s birthday party. A’s projectionist shows up fifteen minutes late and, as a result, the kids begin crying and fighting even though the movies are eventually shown, so that, according to X, the party was ruined for his child and his child’s friends. Now I am willing to bet that if a judge ruled in favor of X no one would accuse that judge of intervening with situations “best handled through market forces.” It’s possible they might feel the whole case was silly, or that an award of $350 was too much, but in neither case would market forces have anything to do with their feelings. On the contrary, they would know that the conditions under which X contracted with the theater company included X’s ability to sue should anything go wrong with the services contracted for. In other words, as consumers in the marketplace we contract with a degree of confidence in part b/c we know that the courts are available to us in a worst case scenario. That ability to sue for breach of contract is part of business-as-usual as we know it.

The principle behind the moviegoer lawsuit is much the same as the one described above. I suspect the only reason that you introduce the idea of “market forces,” as a thing distinct from the law, is that you a discern an intent on the part of these litigants to serve all consumers and not just the specific ones who are arguing the breach. Now it may well be the case that the judge is a friend of december and will be influenced by his/her thoughts on tort reform. Or it may well be the case that the judge is a member of Public Citizen and sees the courts as an important avenue for consumer rights.

In either case, though, the issue is whether or not there is a breach of contract. And one’s views on the relation between the law and the marketplace–a relation which ought properly to be seen as mutual constitutiveness–should have nothing to do with it.

If it does it’s because the judge is an ideologue.

Participation in or interference with, potato po-tah-to. All I’m saying is that in determining whether a breach of contract has occurred, especially one that could have wide ranging implications, a judge will take a great deal of factors into consideration. Saying that the only (and by implication simple) issue is determining “whether there is a breach of contract” is a great oversimplification of what actually goes on. How exactly do you think this takes place, and what factors are taken into consideration? If my use of “market forces” bothers you, substitute “whether circumstances dictate, based on the relations between the parties and various public policy considerations, that it would be better to characterize this set of facts as a breach of contract or whether a judicial remedy is inappropriate for whatever reason.” What the court is actually saying is that it is unwilling to characterize the behavior of the defendants as a material breach of contract, and if the plaintiffs want the defendants to change their behavior convince them to do so by not buying tickets or get legislation passed. If making value judgements on whether the law does or does not provide a remedy in a particular set of circumstances makes a judge an ideologue, we’ve got a nation full of them.