[quibble]Amendments XVIII (Prohibition), XX (Presidential inaugurations moved to January from March), XXI (Repeal of Prohibition) and XXII (Presidential Term Limit) all had to be ratified within seven years to come into force. [/quibble]
Move to Regina (in Saskatchewan), just so you can frequently say, in casual conversation, “no, I’m from REE-gina. I know that we’re all from that other place.”
For non-Canadians, the gag is that “Regina” is normally pronounced to rhyme with “vagina”. At least a third of all the Americans to whom I’ve spoken have heard this from me, in a vaguely exasperated tone.
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It is possible, we’ve passed other laws in the United States that were much more damaging. Volstead act I’m looking at you. What really makes you think this definition of marriage thing could become a Constitutional amendment? Amending the Constitution isn’t all that easy and I doubt you’d get 2/3rd of the states to ratify such a change.
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Our pal Stoid and I aren’t at the same page politically. Her and I disagree strongly on many political issues and even when we come to a consensus we arrive there for different reasons most of the time. One thing I can say about Stoid is that she is passionate about certain issues and actually cares about what happens. I guess we need more people like her who actually care then those who just want to pack their bags and leave.
Canada’s a great place and I could certainly understand why someone would want to live there. I don’t see how someone could think America was so bad that they’d have to flee from here to our neighbors to the north. So really, this marriage thing cannot be the only thing that makes you want to leave. What else is it?
Marc
Aside from Vancouver’s left-wing city council, I wouldn’t describe BC politics as very liberal, either upper or lower case. The province may currently be governed by the BC Liberals, but that name is extremely misleading as they’re much closer ideologically and in their actions to Ralph Klein or Mike Harris Conservatives. Admittedly provinical politics around here are very polarized so we do take some big swings to the left from time to time, but I don’t see that happening again any time soon as the provincial NDP is pretty much completely discredited at the moment.
At the federal level, most of the MPs representing BC are Alliance although there are a handful of Liberals, primarily from the Vancouver area, and two (I believe) NDP, both of whom are definitely from greater Vancouver.
Actually, this whole marriage amendment is a fiendishly clever plot by Bush and the neocons to entice all the gays (and gay loving liberals) to move to Canada. I can see that you have taken the bait. As soon as the marriage amendment passes, Bush’s title will be changed from President to High Priest, and everyone who doesn’t attend a Church Service every Sunday will be detained indefinitely in Guatanamo. Mosques do not count as Churches (as if anyone had to tell you that), but Jews will be allowed to substitute Synagogue for Church as long they are registered Republicans.
So you can see that we’re well on our way to Bush’s dream of turning the US into a theocracy.:rolleyes:
jharmon - check out Canadope, where us Canadians hang out when this board is slow. I started a thread there on potentially moving to Guelph, a city of around 100 000 that’s about an hour outside of Toronto.
My own two cents on where to move - population is pretty concentrated in certain parts of the country because most people want to live near the border - it’s much warmer, for one thing. So from Windsor (the city at the southern tip that sticks into Michigan and NY State) all the way up through Toronto and Montreal to Quebec City is pretty packed (by Canadian standards - remember that there are as many people living in this whole country as in California). If you pick a small city around there you will be within an hour of a big city. Lots of great places along there (and many university towns, like Guelph) - check Peterborough, for one, which is gorgeous.
There’s also a lot of population in Edmonton/Calgary, and the west coast, but I will have to defer to someone else’s opinion since I’ve never been there.
Basically weather-wise you will have to choose how you want to spend your winters - rainy (West Coast) or cold and sunny (everywhere else).
You’ve gotta be kidding. Toronto is an average of 8 degrees (F) colder than New York in the winter. And Montreal is significantly colder than that. I suppose it depends on your definition of “too cold”.
Mostly I was in a bad mood when I posted this, and wanted to see if it would start any discussion… but I will definitely consider moving if that amendment passes. I think it would be a huge step backward for the country.
John Mace - If this amendment passes, it (theoretically, at least) means that most Americans support the amendment–that is, support having a definition of a religious act in the Constitution of the United States, and that definition will exclude a group of people who doesn’t hurt anybody by loving each other. That amendment is utterly revolting to me, and I can’t imagine living in a country that has it in it’s Constitution.
JHarmon: Actually, since 36 states already have laws passed defining marriage as only between one man and one woman, why wait for the amendment. It is clear that most people in the US already support this? Perhaps you can hitch a ride up there with Alec Baldwin (referencing the “I will move out of the country if Bush wins” quote).
BTW, I would be sqaurely against such an amendment myself. But, being that this is GD, what is the point of this thread? There have been several threads active in the last couple weeks explicitly dealing with the amendment. Guess I don’t see the debate here.
I’ve been doing research on becoming a Canadian citizen for a couple months because I just can’t deal with Dubya as president until 2008. (Yes, I know I sound like Alec Baldwin. Unlike him, I actually will move.) Several generations of my family were from Canada. So, I’ve visited often. Guess what? You can count vacation time towards your residency requirement. The communication requirement is either English or French. Basically, I think if you can read signs and instructions in French and understand what they say, you should be okay. This is a great topic and I’m glad that I’m not the only person despairing about the direction the U.S. is going. Vive la Canada!
2 key debate points
- Montreal: Ugly or not?
- Toronto/Montreal: Not really cold or Really cold?
My 2 cents
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Montreal: Ugly. Only place I’ve ever been (CEGEP) where, if it’s green, it gets covered by cement. And the only time I’ve ever really smelled greenness was once I left.
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Not really cold. The warmer winters make you wonder why you’re bothering with all the commotion.
To the OP, come to Ottawa, lots of cultural events, place is hopping with hi-tech start ups and while people hate us because the government is here, Toronto takes more heat.
Actually there is a debate here, John Mace. The question implicit in the OP is at what point does “change from within” become hopeless and you have to cut your losses and leave. Whether it’s your home city, state, nation or other organization you paticipate in there comes a point where you say the change is too much.
Do you remain a member of a country club that discriminates even though you disapprove of the policy? Do you remain in a church that supports a boycott of Disney because it allows “Gay Days”? Do you stay in a nation that elevates DOMA from changable legislation to the more permanent Constitutional Amendment? There’s much more weight to an amendment than legislation.
Whether you consider the proposed amendment enough to “break the camel’s back” or not is the debate. You, obviously, don’t. The OP seems to consider it enough. I’m leaning that direction myself.
Thanks, Homebrew. Exactly.
Of course, the thread does have another purpose. I really do want to gather info on moving to Canada. If I decide to move when/if this thing ever passes, I don’t want to have to begin the planning then.
Of course, I just looked into Canadian government a bit. Do you guys have civics classes up there? If so, is that all you take in high school? It seems like it would take years to even get a basic understanding of the “laws of the land”, so to speak. Score one for the USA in my book. 
If I can ever convince my wife I’d love to move back home to Canada but she’s Taiwanese and can’t stand the cold. She already spent a couple years in grad school in Michigan.
I grew up in Kitchener-Waterloo and went to grad school in Austin. I know southern Ontario quite well and I also lived near Ottawa and Montreal. I found Austin to be a great city that has some tough things to beat such as the Hill Country and Lake Travis nearby and the nightlife on Sixth Street.
K-W is a University town that does have quite a bit of nightlife but doesn’t compare to Austin (I haven’t found anywhere that does). Throughout southern Ontario cities are quite close unlike here in Texas, however, it’s still quite easy to go to the country to get away from it all. K-W itself is both only an hour from Toronto but has lots of nice small communities surrounding it.
Ottawa is beautiful in the summer but too cold for me in the winter. The same goes for Montreal. Winters in Toronto are much more bearable and the subway/Go train/underground helps keep you from even having to set foot outside.
If you were to actually decide to move determine what exactly you’re looking for and I’m sure you can find it (except for the 100+ summers of course).
As for your reasons, they’re the same type of things making me wonder if I should stay here. I find racism, homophobia, religious intolerance etc. to be worse here.
No civics courses that I ever took. Basics are relatively easy to pick up.
Supreme Court appointed by PM. Similar to US SC but no grilling by the legislature of appointees. Executive branch (cabinet) are mainly all elected members of parliament (MP) and have to sit through a daily grilling by the opposition. Due to the current state of parliament many MP’s have little clout within committees, making the cabinet/PMO (PM’s Office: unelected officials that serve the PM) very powerful.
You’ll hate the “not withstanding clause” in the Charter which allows for laws deemed unconstitutional by the SC to be passed and enforced regardless but requiring that the law be amended to comply to the SC’s decision within 5 (7?) years. Of course the NWC can be invoked again at that point.
As a proud Canadian, I would say come on up! But to be fair, it is very, very much colder here than Texas will ever get (in winter, summer can be scorching).
I am in Ottawa, which I think is the greatest city for standard of living anywhere. It is extremely clean, and because it is the capital, it is very well-maintained, much park space, good architecture, flowers, the Canal, etc. However, last winter (for example) we had a total of 15 feet of snow (or somewhere around there, I don’t remember the exact number). The winter temperature hovers around -10C on average, and can get much colder. We are used to it, though I still hate it, but for people from warmer climes it can be hard to handle. As an example, my girlfriend and many of my friends are from Vietnam or Cambodia (tropical, hot, humid), and though they have been here 20 years each, they still can’t handle the cold. So you may find that difficult.
The other downside in the major Canadian cities, except maybe Winnipeg and Montreal (though Montreal is catching up) is the cost of housing. In Ottawa, especially, housing costs are ridiculous (around the corner from my home, someone is asking for $949,000 for a 100 year old home that is less than 2000 sq. feet). So be careful there.
As for gay marriages, we haven’t made it law yet, it has just been defended by the Supreme Court and will go to a Commons vote (same as your Congress). So it may not become a law, as there is some political opposition. I hope it passes, for tolerance reasons, but we’ll see.
As for languages, only about 7 million of the 31million people in Canada are French first, so English is the default language everywhere except Quebec and downtown Vancouver, where Mandarin or Cantonese can go a long way ;).
A real choice on moving here, in truth, should really take the weather into account, because when that first January windchill blast hits you, you may not be ready for the next 3 or 4 months. Think about it first.
I don’t have any opinion on Montreal - never lived there; but Toronto is definitely too cold in the dead of winter. And I’ve lived here much of my life!
My advice, to a Texan thinking of moving here - come in the summer and get used to it in the natural way - through fall (my favorite season! It is truly beautiful here in fall) through winter. Don’t just suddenly come up here in winter - the shock could put you off …
It is not so much the average temp., though that can be bad; it is those occasional ultra-freezing -40 C. (with windchill) experiences, where even stepping outside for any reason is a chore.
Great “debate”
Lower Middle Class brazilians illegally immigrate to the US in pretty high numbers… but ever since Bush more are now heading for milder climates of Australia and the more enlightened countries of Europe and Canada.
I think its great that you are even considering such a move… it would be better if you could somehow “fight” the union of religion and state in the US thou.
I realize I was maybe a bit too down on Toronto - my favorite city in the world!
Although the temp. in winter sucks (at least when compared to Texas - other Canadian cities are even colder), Toronto is still a most excellent city.
Why? In my opinion, it is the incredible diversity you get here. Every culture, ethnicity and religion is to be found here - and we all manage to get along reasonably well. Violent crime is reasonably low, for a NA city of this size (well below the average); in my experience, people have no fear walking the streets at night in most areas.
It is a very “gay friendly” city, if that is important to you.
Ottawa has the scenic beauty, but at heart it is really a small town. Toronto, Montreal and to a lesser extent Vancouver are the “real” capital cities of Canada.
Pppptt!