We’re going to have to work a lot harder now on the peace process but this is a step away from peace.
You might not care about the capital of Israel being Jerusalem. But hundreds of millions of people care a lot about it. And we just made all of those people angry at us. It’s going to make any significant negotiations a lot more unlikely.
No, not at all.
Jordan already existed as a country in 1948. It was called Transjordan. The Partition had nothing to with the formation of Jordan.
This map shows the partition plan.
You know, literally a week or two ago, I saw something or other that reminded me of Israel and I thought, “shit, I remember when Israel was in the news constantly, I feel like it’s been years since I heard about anything particularly bad happening there, maybe it’s finally settling down.” Then this had to happen…of course.
A peace plan will never work unless both sides are willing to crack down on the extremist elements (on their side).
That was a big factor in the failure in the Oslo Accords. Arafat and the Palestinian National Authority never went after the extremists that didn’t observe the agreement.
Israel was slow in closing illegal West Bank settlements and observing the agreement.
Each side pointed fingers at the other.
That will continue undermining any new peace plan or agreement, unless both sides make a full commitment to enforce it.
Yes. Moving the capital serves no purpose except sending a big “Fuck You!” message to the Palestinians. Among Israelis I think only the hardcore right-wing wanted this.
For Trump, I don’t think the Israelis matter nor the Palestinians nor any peace process. He just wanted to show that his Farts are the bigliest farts. Obama, Clinton: they’d never be able to produce as rancid a stench as Trump. Sad.
I saw some commentary that the majority of people who want this are:
… and they also want the symbolism and are insulated from the consequences.
Actually, Congress was pretty much unanimous in wanting us to recognize Jerusalem as the capitol. That means that a lot more people want it than Trump supporters. The wisdom of the move can certainly be questioned, but it’s certainly what Congress wants and probably the public as well.
It’s a pain, but I think we do get something from it. The world has been relatively peaceful and prosperous since the end of World War II. Nations still have disputes, but I’d rather they settle them with tariffs and UN resolutions rather than bombs and guns. I know there’s a lot of fear mongering these days, and it’s not purely imaginary, but by and large things are pretty good. Most of us are safe, healthy, educated, and free to travel the world (and welcome their travelers here). It hasn’t always been that way. I don’t wish to minimize those who are struggling in the world, or die in conflicts, but it’s a lot less than it was a hundred years ago. In a purely pragmatic sense, whatever we’ve been doing has mostly worked.
That’s what I’m afraid of. No one seems to even try to justify this move for any reason but spite. When you find yourself acting like Eric Cartman, it’s time to re-examine your choices.
I was thinking something similar. The thing is, there won’t be one day when we suddenly declare peace and that things will be fine from now on. If there is some last suicide bomber, and last rocket attack, we won’t know it at the time. We’ll know it when we don’t hear about the next one for five years, or ten years. I don’t think an administration that thrives on big, splashy headlines understands that.
I can see how this action might limit America’s influence as a political partner/dealer in the region, but it’s widely popular in the US, no? I think most Americans just want the government to simply give away this bargaining chip. It’s likely that Americans don’t want any bargaining chips on Israel, or for the US to even bargain a resolution.
Anyways, a moved embassy can be simply moved back by future admins, no?
Moving the capitol? The capitol of Israel is Jerusalem and has been for quite awhile. Recognizing that is no different than recognizing Washington as the capitol of the US. That some people don’t like reality is no reason for not acknowledging it.
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We have a significant extreme conservative religious faction (Jewish and Christian) who support this. Their influence is disproportionate because they are a cohesive political block that votes consistently and contributes money to politicians consistently. They carry outsized political influence. Our politicians pander to them.
Most of the rest of the country couldn’t name the capital of Israel (Israel City? Judea?). And probably most of them wish the people in the Middle East would just blow each other up and leave us alone.
And I think pretty much everybody (except for the aforementioned religious groups), if they hear that Trump is doing something that will stir the Middle East pot and inspire more terrorism, is opposed to it.
I don’t have strong feelings on this move either way. OTOH I can see the advantages in saying “you stalled for twenty years with a list of unrealistic demands. OK - now one of your unrealistic demands is off the table. Wanna reconsider?”
If the Palestinians only want East Jerusalem and control of the Islamic shrines, then the US embassy being in Jerusalem is irrelevant. It only matters if they want more than just East Jerusalem. Well, now they know they aren’t going to get all of Jerusalem. If that stalls the peace process, then the peace process wasn’t going anywhere anyway.
A bargaining chip isn’t worth much if you never play it. A bluff isn’t worth anything if it is always a bluff.
Clinton said he’d do it and didn’t. Bush said he’d do it and didn’t. Obama said Jerusalem was the capital and must remain undivided. Trump said he’d do it, and here we are.
Regards,
Shodan
Like with the Climate Change agreement, the Iran nuclear deal, etc, etc, the USA will go its own way and the world another. Internationally, China tends to matter more, though not directly on this.
Lots of this satire stuff going on today: http://newsthump.com/2017/12/06/world-to-recognise-moscow-as-capital-of-the-united-states/
Which bill are you referring to? Was it one of those symbolic bills that they could vote for without worrying about the consequences because they knew it would be vetoed by the President?
Correct. The Jerusalem Embassy Act passed the Senate 93-5 and the House 374-37.
Now that’s what you call an influential lobby.
As is often the case, in my haste I misphrased my comment. But the key point remains. This provocative U.S. action is condemned by almost every player on the world scene. ISIS, al-Qaeda and other Islamist terrorist groups love it of course — it will win them huge support. Putin is probably delighted to see unforced errors by the U.S.A. as well. Other than that, nobody wanted this except right-wing Jews — and the smart right-wing Jews probably understand how stupid it is. Trump is pandering to his uninformed base, while setting back the quest for peace.
Blunder. Big-time. The fact that Uzi defends it, not on policy grounds nor on the search for peace, but just as a matter of childish semantics (“a capitol[sic] is a capitol[sic]”) shows how unthinking support for this stupidity is.
It actually is a law, but Presidents ignored it saying it was an unconstitutional infringement on the President’s powers:
Thanks, D’Anconia for the actual name of the law.
Anyway, I think the Presidents were right, but I can’t get too mad at Trump for just doing what Congress and the public want. Even if it is inadvisable. We live in a democracy, and that means sometimes the people get what they want. I’d also note that pretty much every US President since Reagan has campaigned on moving the embassy and then reneged.
LOL
One of the few times Congress can’t bitch and moan about a President’s policy. 
Trump simply implemented a law they passed by a wide margin. A law that even imposed budgetary penalties for ignoring it.
I haven’t seen much in the way of complaints in the news or on social media about the embassy move from Congressmen. Seeing a TON of criticism from the unelected foreign policy elite. It’s not that they are wrong, but some things are an oncoming train and they held off that train for as long as they could.
