i recorded some MP3 files to CD and they play great on computers, but not on my car CD player or another CD player i tried them on-what do i have to do to get them to play on all CD players? convert them to another format? WAV files didn’t work either-
First of all, did you burn it as an audio CD? If yes, when you put the disc in, it should play with CD player, not WinAmp (or your MP3 player). If it isn’t an audio CD, then it won’t play outside of a computer. IF you’ve burned it as an audio CD and not just MP3 files on a CD, then the problem is most likely the CD media itself. A lot of older CD players can’t play CD-R discs. If you get high quality discs (I use Ricoh Platinum and Imation 12x), they should work.
But first make sure that you’re recording the CD in the right format. Most of the time, CD tracks are .wav format (or aiff on the mac)…basically a raw audio data format. However, newer CD recording programs, like Nero 5 (4 does it too, I think), WinOnCD 3.6 and higher, and I think EZCD 4 can burn straight from MP3 to audio CD.
Jman
>> Most of the time, CD tracks are .wav format
Nope. ALL of the time CD audio format is CD audio format. That means 100%, absolutely every time.
CDrom format is entirely different and can contain computer files of any kind including WAV (uncompressed or compressed using MP3 or any other scheme) or any other type. This has been discussed and explained in previous threads so I won’t explain further.
I always thought that CD audio and WAV are the same thing: raw, uncompressed digital audio data. Isn’t the only difference that CD audio MUST be of a certain frequency and some other requirements?
I vaguely remember a previous thread about this, but it would be helpful if someone could post the definitive answer here so I don’t have to dig through pages of arguments.
>> I always thought that CD audio and WAV are the same thing: raw, uncompressed digital audio data
Nope. WAV is a computer format which can use any sampling frequency etc and can use compression (MP3 or other) or not. An audio CD is at 44100 Khz / 2 bytes per sample / 2 channel.
But the main difference is not this. Even a WAV file at 44100/2/2 is not readable as CD audio format because the CD formats of CDaudio and CDrom are very different at a lower level.
There are three formats being discussed here. It’s important to know the difference and how these formats are used:
CDA - This is the raw uncompressed CD audio format.
MP3 - This is the compressed MPEG layer 3 audio format.
WAV - This is an uncompressed intermediate audio format.
Most conventional (commercial) CD players that you find in cars and personal disc players can only read CDA. CDA is not organized into files, per se. The format is specifically sequential on the disc and there are other constraints. If you plug in a disc with MP3 formatted files into a conventional CD player, nothing will happen - it doesn’t recognize it. WAV is an intermediate uncompressed, non sequential format that can be organized into a file. WAV is specifically for playing sound through computer equipment. If you plug in a disc with WAV formatted files into a conventional CD player, nothing will happen - it doesn’t recognize it. Both CDA and WAV, being non compressed, take up a lot of room on a disc. Hence the need for some sort of compression… enter MP3. The MP3 format is typically better than 10X reduction in file size over WAV (depending on a number of quality factors). The decompression from MP3 to WAV on a computer is reasonably fast, so it makes a good format for audio tracks on computers. Also, because of the smaller file size, MP3 enables technologies like the flash based MP3 players where the files are saved in solid state memories.
Rippers that convert between CDA and MP3 always go through the intermediate WAV phase. Some computer games still use WAV for their soundtracks because any conversion runs the risk of slowing down the game graphics, especially when they’re 3D. WAV is an important format because most soundcards can buffer WAV files so that sound reproduction does not impact CPU performance.
So returning to djf750’s question. Most CD players that are not attached to computers cannot playback MP3 files. There are a few coming on the market that have this capability, but these are very new.
You can take MP3s and/or WAV files and convert these back to CDA and write these to a CDR that will playback through most audio only CD players. You need to insure that your CD writer supports Disk At Once, otherwise you can get out of spec gaps on your CD that will confuse many conventional players. Writing to CDRW disks have been known to have problems, but there are a number of CD players that are coming on the market now that advertise that they are CDRW friendly.
Hope that helps clear things up.
Wrong, wrong and … wrong!
This has been discussed too many times already and you may want to do a search.
For example this thread: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=31615
I am not going to go into this for the umpteenth time. Suffice it to say (and reapeat) that CDA involves low level disk formatting different from CDrom, that MP3, besides being a file format is a compression scheme used in other file formats including WAV and that therefore WAV is a file format which can be compressed using MP3 or other compression scheme.
You might also try http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=35378 and the link that was offered there http://www.padus.com/CdjHtml/cdjAdvanced_Concepts.htm
Sailor: I am well aware that CD audio tracks are CD audio data…what I meant was that usually when you burn CDs, you burn from the WAV format or the AIFF format from your computer to the CD, which is written with the CD audio format. I was purely talking about the starting files that are then burned to the CD.
Jman
sailor:
Sheesh! There’s one in every crowd. You are, of course, technically correct. When I drafted my previous message I had a moral delima… Do I go with common convention and use a less precise language that is more effective at communicating the concepts or do I play the anal retentive geek and completely obfuscate the point beyond comprehension??? Well, I chose the route of optimum communication… you… well, we all see the path you prefer.
I debated just letting this go, but the more I thought about it, the more it irked me. So I’m going to vent a little…
Technically, CDA refers to a tiny specialty file - not the actual “music data”, so sailor is right - I was wrong. CDA files serve a similar purpose on audio CDs as shortcuts do in the Windows file system. They provide a mechanism to double-click and launch your preferred music player and they tell your music player where to start streaming data from the CD for that particular song. While this is technically true, most people, when they talk about CDA files are actually talking about the data stream that is pointed to. This is common vernacular and even the experts use this convention.
Let’s say I have a Microsoft Word document burried deep in a nest of folders. It’s one that I use a lot, so I create a shortcut to it and put it on my desktop. Now if I’m talking to someone and point to the shortcut and say, “I’m going to launch this file.” Then my buddy notices that the icon has a little arrow on it and says, “Wrong! Your going to launch the file pointed to by that shortcut.” My buddy is technically correct, however his protest does little to promote healthy exchange of ideas. Likewise, sailor’s protest has little relevance to the concepts that we’re trying to get across.
[a little anecdotal tangent]
I used to go to school with a guy that was always arguing with our teachers. This guy was pretty sharp, and he always had a valid point, however his arguments always ended up undermining everyone else’s opportunity to learn the concepts that the teachers were trying to get across. This guy could never seem to comprehend that sometimes imprecise language conveys more accurate information than very precise language. Sailor’s chant of “Wrong, wrong… and wrong!” reminded me of this guy… Oh my God! I just had a terrible thought! Your real name wouldn’t happen to be ‘Wayne’, would it?
Well, as long as I’m getting my transgressions off my chest and admitting my errors…
I said that WAV files were an uncompressed intermediate file format. Well, technically, the WAV format can accomodate compression and actually supports various encoding formats. It’s kind of a ‘wrapper’ format. However, in my defense, in the context that we were discussing WAV files (i.e. WAV files that have been ripped from CDAs… or rather, the PCM data streams that are pointed to by CDAs), they are an uncompressed representation of the same PCM data on the audio CD, stored in a flexible, computer usable format. And, even though the data streams are effectively the same, you can’t technically write a WAV file to a CDR and expect it to play on your audio only CD player (most CD writer software will actually perform the necessary translation automatically, so it might seem like that’s what is happening).
Likewise, I erroneously called MP3 a file format, but it’s really an encoding scheme. However, again in common usage and in this context, we often talk about MP3 files which are files that contain MP3 encoded data.
Most people talk about CDA, WAV, and MP3 (in the context of music reproduction) with this sort of imprecise language. It makes it easier to get across the basic ideas. I could go on about PCM, or a-law, or u-law, or red book or orange book standards, or a thousand other realted elements of the technology but none of that would be conducive to explaining why djf750’s CDR with MP3 files doesn’t play in his/her audio CD player. My goal is not to try an impress people with a bunch of techno-speak, but rather to simply communicate. People who don’t need to know the gory details won’t get bogged down and most people who already know the gory details, understand and accept the sloppy jargon… And then there’s Wayne… and sailor.
BTW, sailor. Thanks for pointing me at those links. After seeing the confusion and frustration you caused TheNerd, I was comforted to know that I was not alone… I knew instantly what kind of individual I was dealing with.
Sorry for the vent. I now return you to our regularly scheduled broadcast, already in progress…
The the confusion and frustration I caused TheNerd? As soon as he realised his mistake he admitted it frankly and graciously and he had no complaints whatsoever about my postings. The fact is he was mistaken for a while and he later admitted he was stubborn because he was mistaken. Very much unlike yourself. You are trying to portray me as picky and say I am only “technically” right.
But you said “It’s important to know the difference and how these formats are used”. Well, the fact is that the information you posted was wrong and you did not say “this is technically not accurate but just a way of speaking so you’ll understand”. Many people might think what you posted to be correct and, since it is not, I felt the need to clarify. What you posted is a common misconception (as you can see in the other thread) which I believe should not be left posted without further comment.
I believe you could have given a very simple explanation without need to give incorrect or misleading information.
You could just say an audio CD player can only read CDAudio format which is a different low level format from CDrom which can contain WAV and other computer files which CDAudio cannot do. Is that simple enough? And yet I do not need to introduce such huge “technically” incorrect stuff.
I also corrected a statement from Jman and he just acknowledged it and did not seem to have a problem.
It seems we now know the kind of person you are: the kind that cannot admit the other side was right without disparaging them in other ways and making it into a confrontation. I do not understand why since my posting didn’t even mention you. Just something you said which was “technically” wrong and therefore just plain wrong. I explained my view and did not say a word about you nor was I seeking any confrontation. I do not understand why you get so confrontational. If you feel the need to do that please start a thread in the pit (I never go there and I do not respond so you will have the benefit of having it all to yourself). Please do not make this a personal thread and let’s stick with the OP.
I think you should reread his admission of error… Here, let me help. TheNerd wrote in another thread:
Does that have a ring of familiarity?
Hey, you’re the one who started it with “Wrong, wrong and … wrong!”. Picking at the technical details without considering the context.
Which would not explain to djf750, at an appropriate level, why his/her disks weren’t playing… And, what I introduced was not hugely technically incorrect - it was merely colloquial.
On the contrary, I think I have demonstrated on numerous occasions my willingness to admit when I’ve been wrong. I would have even graciously admitted that you were right, had you tactfully pointed out that my language was a bit sloppy and not technically correct. Instead, you just exclaimed that I was “Wrong, wrong and … wrong!” and then waxed all condescending. You initiated confrontation mode.
I love the “whack, whack, whack” attitude followed by the “don’t take it personal” disclaimer. Real subtle.