Just because it hasn’t been answered, the murderous scumbag who received safe haven in Baghdad wasn’t part of al Qaeda. It was the Palestinian terrorist leader Abu Nidal. He either was killed by Iraqi security or committed suicide in 2002.
Gee, you’re right. Its my fault, the whole Iraq thing. Sorry ya’ll.
Get real, man. Yes, I volunteered. I had my own reasons for doing so, but I don’t want to get into my life story.
Ok, explain to me how its MY fault. I didn’t fly a plane into the WTC, or the Pentagon. I must have missed the staff meeting where we all talked to the prez about invading Iraq. Gotta start checking my day planner, I guess. Hell, I haven’t been to the ME since 1993. I was working at EUCOM and later Ft. Dix when the shit hit the fan in Iraq.
But its my fault in your eyes because I didn’t say “I don’t think we should go to Iraq. Hey Sir, I quit.”. Please get real. You may not like the idea of the Armed Forces and thats fine. You don’t have to sign up, unlike other countries where they have some kind of conscription going on. (One of young German coworkers told me once he had to submit some kind of medical stuff so he wouldn’t have to do a stint in the German military.) But blaming the soldiers is…childish and simplistic. Blaming the current administration would make sense because they give the orders.
But really, tell me how its my fault. I want to know. Because according to you everyone in the military is a villain since we didn’t all say “Screw the orders. We’re not going to do this.”.
It’s immoral to let slip the dogs of war on an operation that has such minimal chances of success. It’s immoral to be so callous about other people’s lives that you’re willing to kill them as a speculation. Just by itself, the initial “shock and awe” campaign of ours killed about 7,500 civilians. Too bad for them, eh? Again, if that’s not immoral to you, I don’t know what is.
Whanks. But while he was a known terrorist given safe haven for years, he was not the one I was thinking of.
Simplistic. You think I have no moral compass because I didn’t up and quit the day they invaded Iraq. I guess I should have called the White House and told the prez I’m not following orders anymore, even though I wasn’t even in a garrison unit at the time.
Why don’t you try blaming the administration instead of the people that volunteered to serve the country? Or shall I tell my wife and relatives they’re all evil because they work for government agencies? After all, Bush sets policy for them too.
It seems that your point is more the immorality of war. Peiople die in war. Innocent people. Horrible, yes. Immoral? It depends, doesn’t it?
If it were just a matter of the people who’ve been in the service since '93 or whenever it was you joined, there would be no war – there’s not enough of you. But everybody who has signed on since the beginning of the war has signed on knowing full well what they’re likely to be used for – on-the-ground operations in Iraq, or support for on-the-ground operations in Iraq.
But I bet you’re no more willing to blame those people than you are to blame yourself. The fact is, without them signing up, there would be no war in Iraq. It’s as simple as that.
What are you saying? That killing people for nothing isn’t immoral?
I suppose you know all of these folks. Because you’re painting a lot of people with a broad brush. You don’t know why they joined. You don’t even know if they’ve been deployed. I suppose the girl I enlisted as a dental assistant is to blame too. She joined in 04 and has been giving dental care to soldiers in Fort Bragg that are likely deployed right now. What a bitch!
Hey, remember, as another poster said, come spring don’t pay your taxes. After all your tax dollars pay me to do this. Come to think of it, you’ve helped bank roll this entire escapade. So actually, that kinda makes it YOUR fault, too, huh?
For nothing? I doubt that any war in history has ever been waged for nothing. You or I might not agree that some of them were worth fighting, but that’s not the same as them being waged for nothing.
You’ve got to be kidding. Are you really of the mind that it would be a good thing to not have enough people to go to war if we had to? That no one should have joined the military since '93, just so we would be unable to go to war if need be?
Maybe I misunderstand you. Are you against having an effective military, one that can wage war effectively?
Are you saying if no one joined the military since 1993 there would be no war? I registered for the draft in the early 80’s. How do suppose a draft would have went over with the general population? I’ve heard rumblings of a draft in the last five years. What quality of soldiers do you think a draft would provide? Somehow I doubt they would be of the same caliber of those that joined of their own free will.
I’ll cop to that. The difference being that I have to, and they don’t.
And if it were only a question of dental assistants, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I don’t even know why you brought that up.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. If George Bush had proposed to invade Iraq and institute the draft to make it work, he would have gotten like five votes in Congress for it. It’s people volunteering that make the whole show possible. No volunteers, no war.
Says who? If you’re so sure the war is immoral, why do you continue to fund it. If they had no tax revenues the couldn’t fund the war and we wouldn’t be in Iraq. It’s as simple as that. Right?
And no effective military should we need them next year or the year after.
We shouldn’t be having this discussion now, because your assertion that I and everyone else that have served since the Iraq war started are guilty of crimes against humanity. Like the danetal assistant, my job is primarily support. So if I’m guilty so is she. She was a sweet kid too. If I see her again I’ll be sure to tell her how this mess is her fault for you. But you think we should simply not follow orders given to us by the administration in power. As Magellan I believe pointed out you’re saying we should have either no military or an ineffectual one.
And you don’t have to pay taxes. You could just say “I’m not paying taxes, because it helps fund an immoral war.”. You’re saying I should do something like that. And unlike myself no one is ordering you to do something. Hell, you can even leave the country. I can’t leave the country I’m in now without permission from my superiors. I can’t even go more than a few hours away on a weekend (I have to be able to report in at a freasonable time should an emergency arise). You can move to Switzerland if you want to. So actually YOU have more freedom to act on this than I do.
Where did I say that, exactly?
We’re all of us to blame, to a greater or lesser degree. I’m to blame, because I pay my taxes, and because I voted for at least one Congressperson who voted to authorize this war. Am I as much to blame as George Bush? Of course not – not even you would say that.
Are you personally as much to blame as somebody who signed up for the infantry in 2004? I wouldn’t say that either. In fact, I’d go as far as to say you kind of got screwed, as somebody who wanted a military career well before Iraq was a twinkle in Dick Cheney’s eye.
But the difference between us is that you’re saying that the aforementioned infantry enlistee of 2004 is utterly, totally blameless. He isn’t. He made a conscious decision to support, to the uttermost, when he didn’t have to, a war that most Americans feel is wrong.
Is he as guilty as George Bush? No. Is he more guilty than I? Hell, yes.
Sorry about the typos in my last post.
Oh, and by the way – I’d be okay with that. The world would frankly be a better place for it.
Maybe not. If you paid taxes in '04 you enabled the government to give him that job. If they couldn’t pay him, provide GI Bill money or any of the other bonuses this infantryman wouldn’t have enlisted. I could claim that you’re actually more guilty than this fictional grunt since you helped provide him with the monetary means to be an infantryman. You helped pay for the rifle, his equipment and bullets. He may have had no other way to support himself and he may have been too dumb to qualify for any other job in the military. So now you’ve helped a poor man with no options become a infantryman in a war that is wrong. Hey, you should have said “I ain’t paying taxes to fund this!” a few years ago. If you stopped paying in 2001 I wouldn’t be here now. So in some ways its more your fault than mine. You should be out telling people to not pay taxes to stop this war!
But since you agree you’re guilty too, its kind of silly to blame the military, ain’t it?By that reasoning we’re both guilty. And as I said, you have more power to act than I do.