Mr. President...Some help Please!

[treis]

Natural disasters generally require these: food, shelter, medical aid, equipment for moving debris, and transportation for the above. As far as I’m concerned, there should always be a stockpile of these, including having people on call for the latter three. It shouldn’t take any longer to get preliminary aid on the scene than it takes to load up and fuel up some airplanes. Natural disasters are bound to happen, don’t know where, don’t know

We have these things to protect Americans you can’t seriously expect America to have an extra stockpile of men and materials just to serve the rest of the world.

[China_Guy]

Doctors sans frontiers (spelling?) and other international NGO aid agencies put people in the air almost as fast as the news wires report treis.

Y’all also might want to remember the aftermath of 9/11 and how fast most of the world responded.

[APOC]

Imbecile ,

There was news of US support just as quick as can be :

US sending medicine, food to Iran

Bush: U.S. ready to help Iran after quake

Americares told AlertNet: “We are bringing in many items needed in the hospitals to treat trauma.” She said her NGO would also provide health kits, tents, blankets, water purifications systems and other emergency supplies.

I got that much in about 30 seconds of searching. Ive seen American relief wokers queing up to leave at the airport .

Asswipe listen up , a natural disaster killing so many people cannot be allowed to be played in a grduge match. If the earthquake hit OsamaVille Central the US would still be going to help . And rightly fucking so for all the reasons elucidated by Gyrate.

Human misery and suffering is human misery and suffering and where the US can help it will.

It is disgusting to see you use this as a way of taking cheap ass political pot shots.

Get your facts straight & debate your politics on the issues

[APOC]

Its Medicins Sans Frontiers

or

Doctors Without Borders if you must.

Used to work with them and you would be amazed what variations people can come up with .

Once got :
"Oh! You mean the Red Cross French Doctors Fund "

[bare]

Don’t you just love imagining the full name behind acronyms?

Look A Piece Of Crap, an Entire day had elapsed before there was a peep from the U.S. regarding aid or assistance or condolences of ANY kind.

I carefully watched the news, and read lots on line all day; everyone else was already on the way with rescue critters and equipment. As I watched the rest of the world mobilize humanitarian aid, I was shamed to not see a single report of aid from the country in the best position to effect immediate aid. I know there are TONS of available resources right next door, within HOURS of making a difference!

When there are folks trapped beneath rubble and the temperatures fall below zero degrees at night, three days to offer substantial help are not soon enough.

Just for the record, if you somehow think that I wouldn’t have made the same complaint with a democratic president, you are pathetically delusional.

[GoHeels]

Gyrate:

If our entire foreign policy is based on the “stick” approach alone, we run the risk of other countries interpreting this as a declaration of overt antipathy and will react accordingly. A demonstration of good faith will not go very far towards influencing the average idiot-in-the-street, but will provide those elements of the government favorable to the US with some support for their position. Thus it is that change is effected.

OK, I grant you everything you wrote. You’re right. I definitely support anything the US can do to alleviate the suffering currently going on in Bam. I’m pretty sure most Americans who give a damn support the extension of aid to the people of Iran now, despite the political differences of the two countries (and if I’m wrong and the majority of Americans are petty assholes like Wolfsbane and prefer to let the Iranians suffer, at least the government has overlooked the pettiness of its populace to extend help).

Now, I want to pose this hypothetical to you.

Given that the US has decided to give generously to help the Iranians and the help is on its way as I write, let’s say, in about 5 months or so, the mullahs start fucking around with the IAEA inspectors (a la Saddam), or are fomenting insurrection among the Shia in Iraq, or start making threats to eventually take out Israel. Given the theocracy’s track record, these are hardly unheard-of scenarios, no?

Will you be on board with some “stick” (if it’s a serious enough provocation on Iran’s part) to go with the “carrot,” or will you join in the usual SDMB chorus and just call Bush a “warmonger?”

Be honest.

[Gyrate]

*Originally posted by GoHeels *
**Gyrate:

Now, I want to pose this hypothetical to you.

Given that the US has decided to give generously to help the Iranians and the help is on its way as I write, let’s say, in about 5 months or so, the mullahs start fucking around with the IAEA inspectors (a la Saddam), or are fomenting insurrection among the Shia in Iraq, or start making threats to eventually take out Israel. Given the theocracy’s track record, these are hardly unheard-of scenarios, no?

Will you be on board with some “stick” (if it’s a serious enough provocation on Iran’s part) to go with the “carrot,” or will you join in the usual SDMB chorus and just call Bush a “warmonger?”

Be honest. **

Sure – as long as the response is proportional and appropriate (as it most certainly wasn’t in Iraq). Bush isn’t called a warmonger because he went to war; he’s called that because he did an end run around all the other available options.

In the case of Iran, the US would be better off engaging in a propaganda war than a real one, especially given the political situation in Iran. Barring overtly military hostilities on the part of Iran, US military strikes would almost certainly be counterproductive, would merely further inflame Muslim resentment, and should be a last resort (the last thing we need is to unite the Shia and Sunni factions against us).

Let me quote from John Newhouse’s Imperial America (I think you can guess his views of current foreign policy from the book title):

In the Persian Gulf, the Iranian government cooperated [with the US in the Afghanistan conflict] by authorizing American search-and-rescue operations on its soil, the transit of humanitarian assistance, and help in the formation of the new Afghan government. In many Iranian cities, groups gathered to express sympathy for the victims of the attacks on the United States. Both hard-liners and reformers denounced the attacks. At that pivotal moment, Iran’s reformist government would have been politically free to extend its reach to America even further. And the combination of improved US-Iranian relations and sensible steps by Washington on the Arab-Israeli front would have further isolated Iraq within the region. But Washington’s harsh reaction, notably Bush’s “axis of evil” remark in his 2002 State of the Union address, damaged prospects for beginning to repair a bilateral relationship with Iran, a relationship of surpassing strategic importance. By citing Iran as part of an “axis of evil”, Bush squandered the goodwill that flowed from 9/11 and provoked an outcry there; Iran’s reformist bloc instantly lost the leverage it had drawn from the event.

I can recognize Monday morning quarterbacking as easily as the next bloke, but the fact remains that Bush and company dropped the ball on this one for the sake of a catchy soundbite.

Anything that tips the balance of power towards the moderates will eventually benefit both the Iranians and the US (which is not to say that the interests of the two countries are necessarily the same, but rather that a move away from extremism is good for international stability). We don’t have to be a doormat, but our current propensity to antagonize any country which doesn’t toe the American line exactly isn’t working either.

[Triskadecamus]

The Fairfax County Virginia Fire Department was on it’s way to Iran, as of Saturday. They doubt that there will be many survivors, given the arcitechture of the region, but they were deploying, as they have so often, as quickly as the international issues are settled.

I have to tell you all that I am very proud of my county. Yeah, we are rich, white, and socially conservative, but we got the varsity team when it comes to urban collapses, and we send them out over the world, politics notwithstanding.

And they got their phone number on just about every disaster response Executives rolodex, world wide.

And they were in Iran last year, too, by the way.

Tris

[Brutus]

Are there a lot of collapsing building in Fairfax Co.? Just wondering why such a skilled team (they were on THC or TDC or one of those channels a while back) would be organized at the county level.

[Creative_Munster]

*Originally posted by Gyrate *
If our entire foreign policy is based on the “stick” approach alone, we run the risk of other countries interpreting this as a declaration of overt antipathy and will react accordingly.

Since when has the US solely relied on the “stick” approach? We are constantly helping people in situations like this and have been doing so for a long time.

*Originally posted by bare *
Look A Piece Of Crap, an Entire day had elapsed before there was a peep from the U.S. regarding aid or assistance or condolences of ANY kind.

Calling people names who point out your ignorance. How does this make anything you have written more sensible? When your fellow American basher spooje calls you out on your nonsense and his fellow American bashing ilk refuse to join you in your outrage, it’s a good sign that you have a meritless grievance.

Just for the record, if you somehow think that I wouldn’t have made the same complaint with a democratic president, you are pathetically delusional.

cough bullshit cough

[The_Long_Road]

It’s all stick, nothing but stick. I’m all for helping people but if anyone is naive enough to think united States aid is going to end the “Death to America” rallies, I’m more than willing to track relations with Iran over the next year and see if they improve. My bet is nothing at all changes since nothing changed after they received aid in 2002.

Gyrate, as for the carrot and stick post, I still call bullshit. Reference the aid given in 2002 and the “Death to America” protest in 2003.

[Tamerlane]

*Originally posted by The Long Road *
It’s all stick, nothing but stick. I’m all for helping people but if anyone is naive enough to think united States aid is going to end the “Death to America” rallies, I’m more than willing to track relations with Iran over the next year and see if they improve. My bet is nothing at all changes since nothing changed after they received aid in 2002.

Gyrate, as for the carrot and stick post, I still call bullshit. Reference the aid given in 2002 and the “Death to America” protest in 2003.

Well, 10,000 hardliners does not Iran make.

But anyway good relations sometimes have to be built painstakingly, one mind at a time. Even if there are a hundred “Death to America” marches next year, it doesn’t mean that aid sent now will not engender some level of goodwill, somewhere, among somebody in Iran. Every little bit helps, even if the effect isn’t immediately visible.

Besides, as you noted, it is worthwhile to send aid for purely moral reasons, regardless of reward.

• Tamerlane

[The_Long_Road]

*Originally posted by Tamerlane *
**Well, 10,000 hardliners does not Iran make.

But anyway good relations sometimes have to be built painstakingly, one mind at a time. Even if there are a hundred “Death to America” marches next year, it doesn’t mean that aid sent now will not engender some level of goodwill, somewhere, among somebody in Iran. Every little bit helps, even if the effect isn’t immediately visible.

Besides, as you noted, it is worthwhile to send aid for purely moral reasons, regardless of reward.

• Tamerlane **

But 10,000 hardliners having a “Death to America” rally which includes a speech by a close aide to the supreme leader shows the government’s position toward the United States. It doesn’t matter because the United States is sending aid but I’m going to call bullshit when it gets thrown my way, especially in a derogatory manner. If the aid goes to help the people in need, I’m all for it.

[Triskadecamus]

Brutus

There was a very public building collapse years ago, which ended up being an embarrassment for the then incumbent government. It was discovered that none of the existing fire equipment could reach the higher floors of the new construction that the pro growth faction had been pushing for the previous ten years. And neither a single person, nor even a book in the possession of the county government telling what to do with a collapsed building.

So, it started then, and became a pride factor rather quickly. The fire department got funded better, and interest in the volunteer division became quite fashionable. The county isn’t particularly earthquake prone, but we are rich, and in the eighties and nineties, we were rich indeed. So, we spent money on a lot of things, but very much so, we spent money on the now rather famous Fairfax County Fire Department.

I am sure we [the county] get reimbursed when FEMA calls up and asks the team to go to the other ends of the planet, but I am also pretty sure that folks in the county have not ever asked whether it’s a break even thing for us, or not. We are pretty proud of our Firefighters.

Tris