Mr. Referee? A word, please...

[John_Stamos_Left_Ear]

Anyone catch that Pinstripe Bowl game? Quite a competitive affair between Syracuse and Kansas State. Lots of excitement and big plays. I was a casual observer but I was still taken in by what a fun game it was to watch.

Kansas State, with barely more than a minute left in the game, scores on a 30-yard TD which brings them to within 2 points. They are a 2-point conversion from tying the game, potentially creating an even more thrilling finish.

The player who scored could have got caught up in the excitement. He might have done something to the defensive player who hit him very late in the end zone, maybe hit him back, or taunt him with a spike at his feet.

But no. Instead this kid, his momentum taking him through the end zone, gives the crowd a salute. For those who didn’t see the play in question, here it is.

The referee decided to flag the kid for unsportsmanlike conduct, a 15-yard penalty which turned the 2-yards-to-tie situation into a 17-yards for the 2-point conversion, a conversion that K-State unsurprisingly didn’t make.

On the same day in another Bowl Game, a Tennessee player made a throat slitting gesture which did not get penalized.

However, even ignoring that, how DARE those officials take a totally benign act of excitement, a simple military salute to the crowd, and turn it into the game-losing play. Those officials helped decide a game and acted above it. It was a ridiculous enforcement of what is actually a good rule.

There are kids on Kansas State, seniors who played their last game of football, and what a joke for the outcome to be decided, not on the field, but by an overly officious zebra with the discernment of a virgin in a whorehouse.

I curse whomever threw that flag to be punched in the neck by a 16-foot-tall Woody Hayes in hell for all eternity. What a joke.

Disclaimer: I am not a Kansas State fan. I was actually pulling for Syracuse to win, but really watched just because it was a Bowl Game and that’s what you do this time of year. It still disgusted me.

[Katriona]

As a K-Stater, I’m glad to see that it’s not just me!

[Lord_Ashtar]

I didn’t see the game, but I watched the video and agree with you that calling that salute unsportsmanlike conduct is…well, there’s no other way to say this…fucking retarded. That’s probably the tamest TD celebration I’ve ever seen.

[Ike_Witt]

Well there is consolation in the fact that the Tennessee QB lost the game on a terrible interception just a couple of minutes later.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Wow. That’s fucking awful.

[GiantRat]

I’m guessing it was a throwback to McNabb’s salute to West Point. Trying to give the dude benefit of doubt…

[glilly]

Saluting the crowd is unsportsmanshiplike? Seems much more respectful than the typical self-congratulatory end zone dance.

[GiantRat]

@glilly

Saluting the crowd is unsportsmanshiplike? Seems much more respectful than the typical self-congratulatory end zone dance.

Well, in the McNabb incident it was viewed as mocking the cadets. I would agree that this KState kid was making a reference to the McNabb incident… although, I agree that it shouldn’t have drawn a flag.

[asterion]

Actually, I was thinking of the old Mile High Salute (has it really been a decade since Elway and Davis?) Didn’t even know about anything regarding McNabb.

[Pashnish_Ewing]

While it is easy to pit the particular referee who made the call, from what I understand, saluting the crowd is specifically mentioned in the rule regarding ‘drawing attention to yourself’ after a touchdown. The rules committee is made up of coaches and ADs. If the referee did not make that call, he risks his reputation (and the reputation of the whole crew).

In other words, don’t hate the ref, hate the rules.

[Chessic_Sense]

@John_Stamos_Left_Ear

I curse whomever threw that flag to be punched in the neck by a 16-foot-tall Woody Hayes in hell for all eternity. What a joke.

TWEET!!!

Personal Foul. This penalty. Repeat OP.

[Marley23]

@Pashnish_Ewing

While it is easy to pit the particular referee who made the call, from what I understand, saluting the crowd is specifically mentioned in the rule regarding ‘drawing attention to yourself’ after a touchdown.

Cite? I think the rule looks like this:

1. No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall use abusive, threatening or obscene language or gestures, or engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game, including but not limited to:
   (d) Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or themselves)

[The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski]

@GiantRat

Well, in the McNabb incident it was viewed as mocking the cadets. I would agree that this KState kid was making a reference to the McNabb incident… although, I agree that it shouldn’t have drawn a flag.

Are you really saying that this player from KState remembered an obscure play from an obscure game from when he may have been in kindergarten?
:dubious:

[Pashnish_Ewing]

So far, this is all I have for a cite.

While Parry admits the penalty on Hilburn was not egregious, he supports the officials for making the call because the rulebook specifically forbids the action after the touchdown.

Dave Parry is the NCAA national coordinator of officials.

I’m not exactly ready to take his word for it, as these are ‘his guys’ he is backing.

In addition to the official rule book, there could be official memos, training videos and other places that the salute may have been specifically mentioned…but if I can’t find them, I’ll withdraw my defense of the crew.

[Morbo]

Gregg Easterbrook offered some comments on this here. Scroll down to “Only the NCAA Could Think One Person Is Themselves”

Not sure I agree with his “home-cooking” theory, but I did see it live and couldn’t believe it was called. Not ten minutes later I saw Tennessee players dancing around and jumping all over each other after TDs - no flags at any point.

[Marley23]

@Pashnish_Ewing

So far, this is all I have for a cite.

That says nothing about salutes, though. It says “the action,” and the full quote implies the issue is the ‘drawing attention to himself’ part. I don’t think there is a rule against salutes specifically.

[John_Stamos_Left_Ear]

@Marley23

Cite? I think the rule looks like this:

Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or themselves)

I think calling the salute “delayed, excessive” or “prolonged” is ridiculous. And it’s quite a stretch to say it is “choreographed” although a (weak) case could be made. And how saluting THE CROWD drew attention to himself I don’t quite get. By the literal definitions of all words involved, that means according to the referees had he pointed to the crowd he would have actually been pointing at himself. Which is insane.