Wait, the 32 trillion price tag INCLUDES a tax increase that offsets the insurance premium savings?
Well, you’ve solved everything. Let’s do it.
No. M4A requires that most current health care premiums be converted into taxes. MOST healthcare premiums are paid by employers. Why are we letting employers off the hook with a mere doubling of their historically low corporate tax rates?
Have current premiums paid in taxes (the math isn’t too hard) and add a reversion to Clinton era taxes and you are there.
I read the report and I don’t find it convincing at all.
The average family plan is about 18K, employers pay about 12K of it.
This is more than large employers pay in corporate taxes generally. IOW, if you told large employers you would either double their corporate taxes or double their health care costs, most of them would rationally choose to double their current historically low taxes.
http://files.kff.org/attachment/ehbs-2014-abstract-summary-of-findings
Shodan, is CarnalK onto something here? If so, would this be related to my question from a few posts up?
If not, could you please answer it? I want to understand what you mean by this.
Why does it have to be either or? Instead of single payer health care, how about just single payer medicines/drugs?
A well constructed universal health care system is about it. Every band aid along the way is probably MORE expensive.
AFAICT, he pretty much thinks ALL liberals are stupid. I’ve never seen him denigrate stuff said by Condoleeza Rice or Nikki Haley. I don’t recall him saying Clarence Thomas is stupid or that Alan West is of inferior intelligence.
On the other hand I’ve seen him call quite a few white liberals stupid.
The fact that most people of color are liberals might make it seem like he is a racist but he is MOSTLY just partisan. He might be racist as all hell but its not because he thinks that all liberals are stupid.
Well, your statement does come off as oversensitive. YMMV
Many universal health care systems are not closed systems. They allow for supplemental health care insurance. This usually falls into 2 categories. Your supplemental health care provides ALL the compensation to the health care provider so you effectively pay twice (once through taxes and once through your supplemental (kind of like sending your kids to private school), the other kind pays for stuff that the universal healthcare doesn’t pay for (covers deductibles and pays for stuff that your insurance simply won’t treat), this would be like sending your kids to afterschool enrichment classes after their public school curriculum is over.
The problem is that it is only true for maybe 80% of the population. The other 20% pay more and too many people think they are in the top 20% or will be soon.
Now just elect the congress and white house to do it.
Cutting military spending is a nightmare (why do you hate the troops?). We were able to do it for that brief period of time between the end of the cold war and 9/11. But every other country with a large defense budget in the world (outside the middle east) was cutting defense even faster than we were. Then we started ramping up to fight Osama Bin Laden and guess what Russia did. Guess what China did?
If we ever get a president that is willing to raise taxes and take on defense contractors, the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. at the same time, we will be naming a holiday after him just after he gets assassinated.
I think you guys are wasting your time trying to engage Shodan on the substance of this discussion. As is typical, he just wants to say “Hur Hur stupid librul said something silly.” and expects everyone to respect the implied “FULL STOP” that follows all GOP pronouncements. For instance, “I don’t believe my own administration’s climate change report!” “But Mr. President, based on what? What evidence, what counterargument, what reason?”
You’re wasting your time. There is no there there, just churlish anti-liberal glurge. It is just reflexive behavior, kind of like how the bodies of coma patients still chug along with basic processes.
AOC said something silly. Got that? Hope so, cuz that’s all you get.
… and like I said earlier in the thread (and it got ignored), looking at how Repubs REALLY care about the deficit - they DON’T, let’s drop that bullshit.
They don’t give a rat fuck about any deficit, except as a political talking point - and a phony one at that.
They don’t behave principles of any kind. They don’t even believe in democracy itself.
You know Trump Derangement Syndrome? Shodan has the conservative sequela. He’s drunk on liberal tears.
There is additional thinking. It’s “progressive said something stupid, so this proves progressives are stupid.” And the only real reason to make a big deal out of this, even if you assume she said something stupid, is because you want to combat it.
It’s Shodan’s MO. He very often just uses mockery or sarcasm as a substitute for argument. The more he uses it, the more you can tell that he’s floundering for ways to genuinely debate. And he’s used it a lot more this year.
Trump shows that, at least for some people, mockery works. That’s why he comes up with those nicknames.
AOC did more than say something silly. She displayed a gross ignorance of the size and scope of government. I suspect this is largely the result of too much tweeting. So perhaps we should cut her the same slack on this board we cut for POTUS.
I am rooting for her. She is a much better vehicle to call out corruption than Maxine Waters. She’s already impresses me with her failure to sell out as soon as she got off the plane. Most people sell out on the plane ride over to DC.
Right, because we never imply that “trump said stupid things so trump supporters are stupid”
And Shodan isn’t saying that progressives are stupid. He seems to be saying that AOC is stupid (she’s not).
The big difference here is that AOC’s more vapid comments aren’t being translated directly into national policy. Also, I’d wager though I can’t guarantee that if confronted with her error, she might accommodate new information and adjust accordingly. Let’s give her a year at least.
Contrast with the entirety of the GOP. Supply side economics has been debunked for decades, but this blatant oligarchic corruption is policy at a cost of a $1T deficit, and pretty much to a man every GOP Congress critter plays dumb about it. Climate policy? Corrupt, willed ignorance of the science. New rules on waterways? Science thrown out to impose a corrupt policy of willed ignorance to favor polluting industries.
And so on down the line, in almost every department, we see destructive to the public willed ignorance out of GOP policy, whereas (I assume) AOC is merely inexperienced. She has good values (I think), which is the main point, and also why it is so infuriating when propaganda thralls like Shodan waste all of our time with these inconsequential gotcha gripes. That stupid motherfucker needs to take the beam out of his own eye before he attends to the mote in AOC’s.
Exaggerate much? Yes, she showed some ignorance, but come on.