Munich and Bavaria --- any tips?

In My Humble Opinion
21

That’s because of course Plastic Is Bad for the Enviroment! Also, we don’t have any packers at the supermarket - do it yourself! Paying extra employees makes the prices higher, after all.

Oh, if you buy expensive stuff in the main stores (Kaufhaus) look for the service /Kundenschalter - ground floor, 3rd/4th/5th floor. They have a special desk for foreigners, where you can get the VAT= MWSt back. Don’t forget that you have to pay the equivalent of VAT in your country when you return because you’re importing it, though.
VAT in general: there is no sales tax that varies. Instead, there’s two types of VAT that applies to all of Germany. Normal is 19%*, reduced is 7% - for books and foods and necessities. MWSt is almost always included in the price = brutto, only a few special markets show netto price. So what you see is what you pay, no extras at the cashier.

  • Eating in a restaurant is luxury, thus 19%; take-away food is reduced and thus 7%. In take-away places like McDonalds, cashiers will therefore ask “Mitnehmen oder hieressen?” = take away or eat here. (Some years ago there was a huge scandal when it turned out that McD had entered every meal as take-away with 7%, even when people ate there, and pocketed the difference instead of paying the tax properly.)

In many places, you can buy cloth bags decorated/printed with some special theme, or to support a cause. Those are also special souvenirs themselves…

If you want something different from normal tourist (and depending on what date exactly you’re here), on 8th till 10th May, there’s a handicraft market in Sauerlach take the S-Bahn). You can watch a basket-weaver, brush maker or hand-weaver doing their crafts and buy special hand-made things (clothes, soap, wooden combs, decorated cards …)

22

Though sadly that’s not a general recommendation. While Anglo-Americans are known for congratuling foreigners “Your English is so good” if you’re able to stammer out five words, Germans in general take the high horse and laugh and point at anybody who still confuses “der, die, das” (the - male, female, neutral gender). Though it’s mostly the “bad” foreigners (Ausländer) like Turks and Italians who get laughed at to their face; “good” foreigners like rich tourists from US might be helped.
Expect also that Germans will switch into talking English to you even if you adress them in German. Personally, I think it’s politer if I notices somebody has problems with German; and it’s easier for me to speak English badly than to understand bad, heavily accented German (as I’m used to flawless high German myself). Other Germans might simply want to practice their English on you.

Oh, and the main tourist information is at the Marienplatz - in the Rathaus (town hall), to the right side. The tourist info at the main station is a branch office of that.

23

I would rather say that this sound doesn’t appear in German at all, though for some reason the Germans certainly seem to enjoy telling themselves that it’s the same as sound as “ä”. I recall once seeing a German newscast in which a reporter tried a “stylish” unnecessary-insertion-of-a-goofy-sounding-English-word-into-a-German-sentence by making reference to the “running geck” at a certain conference. It was not until several moments later that he had actually meant the running gag. Still, I suppose English speakers tend to butcher the German language in far more savage ways, so it all evens out in the end.

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Of course American English pronounciation can’t be mapped 1:1 to German sounds. The whole melody and shape of the language (that’s what I think of it when trying to visualize it, though linguists call it differently) sounds different between German and AE, after all, and it takes a long time to not only pronounce German words correctly, but loose a foreign accent. The “a” in english “Hat” is however closest to german “ä”.
I’m not a linguist, and I have a hard time understanding the technical descriptions of rounded labial and back-at-the-throat uvular sounds and similar technical descriptions.
In normal dictionaries, e.g. Langenscheidt, there’s usually a page at the front with the IPA symbols and examples from your own language. That’s a close approximation, and the more you practice, the close to the real sound you get.

While there is an annoying tendency of ad media and similar groups who try to be fashionable to use many English words unneccessarily (called Denglish), this is not an example of being stylish, because “running gag” has been adopted as there’s no good german equivalent. It’s not that the news speaker thought that english a = ä exactly, he was simply speaking English with a too-strong accent.

Which reminds me of false friends you might want to watch out for: english words that weren’t adopted, but coined new with a different meaning!
Two wide-spread examples are “Handy” for a mobile/cell phone and “body bag” for those bags worn diagonally across one shoulder instead of normal backpacks or tote bags.

I’ve heard, but rarely had the opportunity to check, that when in US movies or series a character who’s supposed to be german talks german, the US actor will have a strong accent and thus be almost un-intelligeble to real Germans. This would be also breaking of disbelief if a person speaking German with American accent is expected to be accepted by real Germans as authentic German (during a spy movie insertion in Alias or similar).

But since our TV stations have decided that Germans don’t want to bother with subtitles, and not enough Germans understand English well enough, everything is dubbed and mistakes like this, together with slurry, indistinct speech from some actors, background noise etc., is eliminated by trained voice actors speaking accent-free High German mostly. Though they then introduce new mis-translations, and loose all the puns, as well as important indications of nationality, e.g. in Lost, I have no idea from language who’s Australian, Brit or US.

I have to buy DVDs to get the original track of series; and I wish the TV stations would stop doing this. Many fans of a particular series, esp. those series that have a lot of puns, wordplay etc., or suffer from mis-translations, and who are in the <35 yrs. group understand English well enough that they wish for sub-titled original tracks, like in Scandinavia. But the TV stations always refuse our pleas. Sigh, it sucks.

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My dear constanze, that is simply amazing information!
I came here to add my two pfennigs, but you covered everything and more.
May I suggest you put it all together and create a “Munich” website?
(That is how I started my Las Vegas website - simply answering questions here in the SDMB so often, I thought I would slap it together for posterity.)

Good job, constanze - sehr gut gemacht!

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Dmark - thank you very much (Herzlichen Dank). Yes, I have sometimes thought to use the free webpage my provider offers to answer all those recurring questions on travelling to Europe/Germany for the tourists that come up repeatdly here on the dope and elsewhere. So far, I haven’t found the time to type and code everything for hours, but … maybe I will sit down one day.

I’m also interested in what non-Germans notice as foreign here - I have to put myself into what’s typical for an American, based on what I read here and elsewhere, and compare it to Germany to remember that no tap water is special and so on. Would you know to advise tourists to the US that they have to tell loud and clear if they don’t want ice cubes in their soft drinks, as they are usually added automatically, for example?

Oh, and Dmarkt - (nitpick on): we do have switched to Euros and cents, you know? :wink: (nitpick off)

However, there’s much more to tell - if you still want more (there’s a reason that guide books are hundreds of pages long, not only describing the sights itself, but also the cultural knowledge).

Nightlife: Not much except. … Munich is also called “Millionendorf” (Million village), because it’s made up of many little suburbs - Schwabing, Sendling, Berg am Laim, Haidhausen, Au etc., many of them older than Munich itself, which is only 850 years young - but also because, unlike Berlin which is alive and vibrating all day and night round, as Berlinians tell me, Munich locks up the sidewalks at 11 pm, as we say. There’s even a law that beergardens have to close down at 11 pm, so that the neighbors can go to sleep.
The only exception for eating late, drinking late and partying is the Schwabing quarter, which has become and remained synonimous with nightlife, so that most clubs and bars are there (not all.) BTW, you might want to know that in German disco is a place where you go and dance music plays so you can dance to it (extra touch is a silver spinning globe on the ceiling) - because from what I read, disco in AE seems to mean a style of music, not a place?
To find Schwabing, take the U3/6 to Münchner Freiheit or Giselastrasse or Universität and walk west into the small streets or simply along the Ludwig/Leopoldstrasse.
Other places are spread out - there’s a huge place at Ostbahnhof (East station), one place in Pasing, one in Laim, and now with the start of the Summer semester, the students parties. Look for flyers or posters if you want to go. (I can’t tell you which ones are good, though, because I don’t like going to clubs or touring around or similar) If you get into the U-Bahn on Friday or Saturday night and follow the crowds of young slightly drunk noisy people on their way to have fun, you’ll probably find something.

Visiting and seeing sights in general: I have thought a bit about this, and a lot of what I can tell you depends on what type of tourist you are. Very generally speaking, there are two types (and I will try not to sound judgemental, but it is simplified and exaggerated):
one is the “normal” tourist, who wants to see the traditional sights (going by an official list) - the Big Ben in London, the Eiffel Tower in Paris, the Hofbräuhaus and Schloss Neuschwanstein in Bavaria. They want to take pictures of each other in front of these sights as proofs that they were there to show to everybody back home they were there. They want the trip easy and expected.
the other type is the “memories” type, or off-the-beaten path. I tend towards this - I feel that I have seen the typical sights so often on TV and photos, that I don’t need to see them just because they are famous or required. But I know that the memories I will remember 10 years in the future are the personal things - wandering around the streets getting a feel for the city, having a relaxed picknick somewhere, spending an afternoon in the sun, the little things.

For example, if you are a normal tourist, eating in the Hofbräuhaus or Weisses Bräuhaus will be good for you: the menu is in German, English, (French, Spanish, Japanese, Italian), many other tourists around you (although May is just the start of the season, and pentecoast holidays are late this year, so things won’t be as full as later in the summer), and the menu features the typical stuff you expect.
If you are the off-the-beaten track tourist, though, you could eat at for example, the Schinken Peter in Giesing, where the Menu is German/Bavarian, the portions are big, but traditional.
Or for example, Zum Kloster (At the monastery) in Haidhausen (Zum Kloster, Preysingstr. 77, 81667 München, Telefon: +49894470564) which is often overrun, and has innovative modern food, and interesting guests.

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About Schwabing: while most tourists think Schwabing = nightlife, you can also walk around it during the day and watch all the nice Jugendstil (Art Nouveau) houses: almost all facades have been restored lately. Interesting history: in the end of the last century (1880s) , Schwabing got its reputation as Künstlviertel (artists quarter) because at that time, in Berlin under the iron rule of Prussian militarism, censorship was strict, while in Bavaria the King liked artists and encouraged them to come, so famous writers and painters spent time there. Even though it’s difficult to remember today under the strict conservative rule of the black CSU, Munich used to be very liberal. (You can also visit the Gabriele Münter house near Munich with the S-Bahn, for example). You can find little plaques on some houses that so-and-so stayed in this house from … to … writing the novel … or painting or whatever. Best place for this would be U-Bahn Giselastrasse, walking along Franz-Josef-Strasse and then turning southward in the small streets.

Food: I haven’t yet mentioned all the sweet delicacies, how could I forget them? Generally, the Bavarian kitchen has lots of meat and potatoes in big portions because most labour until 50 years ago was heavy manual - farming, lumberjack etc. But because of the close distance and “Brudervolk” (Brother people) kinship with Austrian Tirol and the Bohemian region, we’ve imported a lot of the “Mehlspeisen” (sweet food with lots of flour, butter, milk, eggs, sugar … unhealthy, but mmmmmh!).
Krapfen - they are similar but different from donuts (Although some shops now sell donuts, too, you aren’t coming to Bavaria for donuts, are you?) made from sweet dough, fried in oil and filled with jam. Traditionally, they are only eaten during Karneval time until Ash Wednesday, but several bakeries carry them year-round to make more money.
Kaiserschmarrn (literally Emperors nonsense/scrambled) is a scrambled pancake made from rich dough with raisins served with apple sauce or fruit Kompott (compots). A full serving is filling enough for a full meal.
When Arnold Schwarzenegger introduced special Apfelstrudel at the Planet Hollywood restaurants, we Bavarians wondered what was so special about it - you can get Apfelstrudel hot with ice cream or sweet sauce, or cold.
Arme Ritter (poor knights) are toastbread filled with jam or chocolate dipped into pancake dough and fried in oil.
In Bakeries, you can also find lots of small sweet baked things like Nussschnecken (nut paste snails), Hahnenkamm (shaped like a cocks comb), Apfeltasche (a pocket filled with apples) etc.

As for picknicking: since you live in a hotel, and can’t prepare stuff yourself, you can simply go into a supermarket like Tengelmann and buy e.g. readymade potato salad from the cooled section, Brotzeiteier (hard-boiled eggs) and similar.
Bakeries like Wimmer and Hofpfisterei also have sandwich rolls: Wurstbrötchen (sausage rolls) or Käsebrötchen (cheese rolls).
Typicall for German fast food, BTW, is no longer the Curry wurst (roasted sausage, cut into pieces, with ketchup and curry spice), but Döner Kebap / Gyros Pide (the same dish, but the first is the Turkish, the second the Greek name. Both immigrant groups have opened shops, but since they don’t like each other, look at the name written down if you don’t want to make them mad by asking a greek for a turkish food!) It’s lamb or calf meat roasted on a spike, cut into small pieces and put into a flat bread with pieces of Salad.

Wraps have become popular in the last several years. Crepes have come over from France, offered by street vendors both sweet (jam, sugar, chocolate) and salty (cheese, tomatoes etc.)
Oh, if you go into a supermarket, you might want to buy a glass of Nutella or similar (I buy organic Samba) - a spread of sugar, chocolate/nougat and haselnuts (in different concentration). You spread it onto your bread or eat it with a spoon from the glass (unhealthy but tasty). My American guest parents loved it, they dipped their (very sour because of the high altitude) strawberries into it.

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If you are here on Sat. 16th of May, you could take part in the München Rallye, made by the MVV together with Statt Reisen. Don’t expect to win - it’s targeted at Munichians to get to know other quarters of the town better and in depth, and it’s hard. Plan enough time, the whole tour is 3 hours or more. But it’s interesting and you can break off anytime if you feel tired. You go to the tourist info at Marienplatz, show your MVV ticket and get a DIN A 4 booklet with instructions on the route. They give you some background, often with old paintings reproduced, e.g. “The Odeonsplatz used to be the northward end of Munich until King Ludwig built the Ludwigstrasse, it was empty field…”, and then they ask the question “Go to the Theatinerkirche: who’s the patron saint? Write down the fifth letter; take the U-Bahn to Münchner Freiheit, take the first street left…” etc. It’s two or three/four quarters, with interesting details, and the pictures make it more interesting to compare before/after.
Don’t come too late, though - last year, I started at 11 am, and there was an almighty queue already, and at quarter to 2 pm, they had run out of the booklets! (The year before last year, they had printed around 550, so they thought last year that 1100 would be enough, but it wasn’t! They also gave everybody a small salt stone, and two actors were dressed up in old clothes on the historic bridge to check on our salt and demand toll tax for it like in the Middle Ages. This was a special addition because of the 850 year festivity we had last year, though, not a regular occurrence.)

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Oh, watch out for the bikes lanes! They’re the maroon (IIRC) paths between the sidewalk and the street. They’re actually level with the sidewalk and only distinguished from the sidewalk by the color. It’s easy enough to wander from the “walking” part of the sidewalk onto the bike path, but the bike bells will remind you to move the hell out of the way.

Talking to the girlfriend, we’re pretty sure that we were told about “Zahlen, bitte” by bartenders in Switzerland and Salzburg (the one in Salzburg actually wrote it down for me, which is why I know how to spell it).

Generally, while I didn’t get too many friendly grins on the trains by any means, I did find the people in Munich to be quite approachable and helpful if I had questions about directions, location of an ATM (bankomat), etc. And no one gave me any crap about my German, though having sung in German under a director who was very picky about pronunciation may have helped (the Pimsleur Intro to German CDs probably didn’t hurt either).

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There’s also the traffic sign itself: a white bike on blue ground, round, which means it’s a bike-only path, and the one with the pedestrian and the bike together, which means it’s a shared one, and both parties have to watch out for each other.

If you are the one driving the bike, you are obliged to stay on the bike path, neither on the sidewalk (only for kids until age 10), nor on the street (for cars). Except if there’s no bike path or it’s blocked, then you are allowed to drive on the street.

If you are walking on the Ludwig/Leopoldstrasse, there’ll be hordes of bikers zipping by at high speed, mingled with the now-active inliners, so watch where you’re going!

And the Neuhauser/Kaufingerstrasse between Marienplatz and Stachus are Fussgängerzonen = pedestrian zones, so you have to push your bike.

So in English, would only one form be correct, or couldn’t you say “The bill please” as well as “I want to pay please”? Languages have more than one way of expressing things that are correct. As long as you don’t say “Ich möchte bezahlt werden” I want to get paid, everything’s clear and correct. (Though as tourist, you’d probably get a funny look only and the bill anyway).

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Of course, but it was implied that “Zahlen, bitte” may be somewhat rude, at least in Munich, so I was trying to remember where I’d heard it.

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No, “Zahlen, bitte” said in a polite tone, or the full form “Ich möchte bitte zahlen” is okay. I seem to have expressed that badly. I was thinking of the typical grouchy Bavarian elder male/ jerkish person, who grunts “Zahlen!” in an imperious, come-here-this-instant-serviceperson tone of voice. That would be rude.

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I really enjoyed my time in Munich, although it was only a few days. I don’t have a lot to add to all of the incredibly valuable stuff that constanze has posted, other than to say that any city that offers half-liters of beer for breakfast is OK with me. Speaking of, dunkelweizen was my brew of choice while I was there. It’s not as heavy as you might think given the color, and has a lot of malt flavor without being too sweet.

For a surreal mix of America and Germany, you could venture out to Oklahoma Saloon, a country-western bar close to the Thalkirchen U-bahn stop. The night we were there featured a band from Austria who performed quite credible covers of country and country-rock music (some Garth Brooks, some CCR, Eagles, that sort of thing). My German skills were pretty rusty, and unable to deal with the Austrian accents, so I couldn’t understand a word they said between songs, but the clientele and the staff at the bar were very friendly, and we had a great time. I think we were there on a Thursday night, so it wasn’t too busy. I don’t know if the atmosphere would be different on a weekend.

They have a sister bar called the Rattlesnake Saloon, but it’s harder to get to from the center of Munich. We didn’t go there, so I can’t vouch for the experience.

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For the OP: since you didn’t say what dates exactly in May you are coming, here are the official holidays:

May 1st (Maifeiertag/ 1. Mai) is both a church holiday and Labour Day. Almost all shops (exceptions are airports and the main station, but they sell with a markup) will be closed. Restaurants will probably be open.

This year, ascension (Christi Himmelfahrt) is on May 21st. It’s a high Church holiday, esp. in Catholic Bavaria, but also coupled with Father’s day (Vatertag). Unlike the US, fathers don’t expect glurge cards of love and gifts on Fathers day; instead, they go out in the countryside and get drunk.

Pentecoast (Pfingsten) falls this year on 31.st of May and is a double date: Sunday and Monday are holidays. Shops will be closed, and Restaurants might be open or closed, depending on the owner.

School holidays start after pentecoast in Bavaria, so you won’t be affected.

If you like Beer, you could visit a real working brewery instead of “just” the Hofbräuhaus. E.g. in Aying, theAyinger breweryhas regular guided tours (PDF, German, with dates) through their brewery (with beer drinking optional afterwards). Take the S-Bahn to get to Aying.
Relevant parts of the PDF quoted and translated:

So unless you get at least 15 people together, they don’t do an english tour by default. In the summer months, with tourists everywhere, you could probably join an existing english tour, but in May not enough might be around.

Contact for reservations
Tel.: 08095 88-0
Fax: 08095 88-50
brauerei [at] ayinger.de

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To the OP: now that May is over, did you enjoy your trip? What did you like, and what not? What was interesting, and what was bothersome?

Would you like to tell me as feedback which tips were helpful and what else I could have told you that would have been helpful?