Music for the Fans

The music is for us, ‘The Fans’

Boycott the music. Boycott concerts. Boycott CD’s.

Multimillion dollar singers/songwriters are suing their ‘fans’ because we share music on the internet. And why are they suing? They are suing because they say their losing profits from the sales of CDs. Did they forget how much money we spend on ticket sales to see their concerts? Not to mention billions of dollars spent on CDs each year. This is why these singers/songwriters are among some of the wealthiest people in the world. All this sharing is no different than the cassette tape “party mixes” that everyone made in the 80’s. The only difference is that we are in the Internet age using new technology. If I could only play their game and sue every time I get a piece of spyware, pop-up ads, or a virus on my computer. This is all just part of the Internet.

I think it is time that we let them know how powerful the ‘fans’ are…When we take all our money and spend it somewhere else this Holiday Season. I refuse to purchase any CDs or anything else from the music industry. If, for no other reason, than to protest all those select individuals who are being slapped with a $13k to $17k lawsuit, that will only line the pockets of the already rich lawyers and singers/songwriters!

If everyone would refuse to purchase CDs, concert tickets and merchandise until the first of the New Year, then maybe they will appreciate the millions of dollars that we, the fans, do spend, as apposed to the “two cent royalty” they are missing on that ‘shared’ CD.

The music is for us, ‘The Fans’. I urge you to get this message out to all who love music.
Copy, paste, e-mail or write your own letter. Print and post in all public places. Let your neighbors know, let the world know, The Fans will not stand for these lawsuits!!

You’ve convinced me to do one thing: to buy more CDs, to counteract all the theft done by “fans” like you.

I was thinking more along the lines of the 12 yo girl they sued. If something needs to be done, it needs to be done with some reason to it.

You also will need to get some paper and VHS tapes and probably a whole list of stuff I haven’t even thought about. Considering copying ANYTHING without the owner expressed permission is illegal.

Maybe they need to put a stop to it, but they can do it without the blood.

I disagree somewhat with this point. In most cases, you had to make the tape off of an original tape/record/CD - you can’t make exact duplicate copies over and over without sound degradation like you can with an mp3 file, which generally limited pirating to acquaintances of the cd/tape/record owner. In online file trading case, all you have to do is find someone with the file on their pc, copy it, and then someone else you don’t know can come by and do the same thing. In the end, a lot more illegal copies of that original are produced.

Not to say I disagree with much of the rest of your post - I think that the RIAA and some artists are overestimating their losses and are being a bunch of greedy pigs in this whole deal. I myself occasionally download songs, but I can honestly say that my downloading activity has INCREASED my CD purchases (I buy about 3 CDs per week). But I’m also the type of person that wants the original work with art, sleeve notes, etc. if I like the album. I would also note that most of the artists I’ve talked to in smaller bands that DONT make millions of dollars seem much more laid back about all of this file swapping - they seem to understand that many people who listen to music that they wouldn’t have bought may become fans.

You know, I keep seeing people talking about how the “greedy record companies” are evil for suing people, but the fact of the matter is, distributing copies of media for which you do not hold the copyright is illegal. If you manage not to get sued, then consider yourself lucky, because you should always view the default result of breaking the law as being faced with legal consequences. There’s no reason to get mad when someone finally gets exactly what the law dictates.

The law dicates a lot of things and creates a lot of loop holes and gray areas. And some laws I think are abused. Should I get $20 million because I am 80 pounds overweight I like McDonalds?

Artists should have a right to protect their works. But does that mean you should give Lucy Ball $20,000 because you taped her TV show every night after you went to bed? By the law, yes. And if you tried to make copies and sell it, I would totally agree. But if it was for you’re own pleasure, I just can’t see getting in a tiff over it. Right or wrong.

I can never agree with any lawyer that has to make an example out of a 12 yo girl because she downloaded a few songs she liked.

And I really can’t help but think they are greedy. With an average of $24M going from middle and lower class americans into the pockets of high priced lawyers and song writers. The otherwise wealthly 1% of the nation. I read where they said they settle a few lawsuits already for $3,000 but they are going to get a lot more from the rest of them.

Oh, I don’t disagree at all with that, Joe Random. I agree that the companies are definitely within their legal rights. That doesn’t change the fact that IMHO they are greedy. I doubt that all of the music being downloaded represents a loss, because most people who download vast quantities of mp3s wouldn’t/couldn’t pay for the CDs at $12 - $18 a pop. MP3s are here to stay, and so is the internet. I think that the various record companies should be coming up with more constructive ways to use the media rather than slapping lawsuits on file swappers.
Iwould also point out that k90004 was not advocating file swapping, he was advocating a boycott of the other moneymakers for the recording industry. I think he has a point - many fans spend much more on other products associated with the music (A Tshirt costs twice as much as a CD, a concert ticket can be three times as expensive, and the RIAA has been alienating many of them). I can’t say I advocate file swapping, but I stand by what I said. Any MP3 I ever downloaded that I liked, I ended up buying the album (I am admittedly not a huge file swapper, but I have occasionally grabbed a few songs off an album to see if it was worth buying. I might be doing something illegal, but I ain’t costing them anything.)

Counteract the theft, eh? Hold on a minute… if the OP steals CDs, and you start buying more, pretty soon there won’t be any CDs left for the real fans!

Unless, perhaps, we aren’t talking about theft at all.

Now then, where’s the debate? I’d think that a “call to action” like this should’ve been posted in MPSIMS, or maybe stapled to a wall somewhere.

squint and imagine that close parenthesis at the end of ‘them’ at the end of ‘expensive’ instead, it’ll read better

by the way, welcome to the boards, k90004

So many of these threads have been written… so many…

Look, I’ve written some quite extensive posts about this subject in the past. I’m 41 years old and the very first ever single that I bought was in 1970 as an 8 year old - I gave my Christmas money to my older brother to go buy me “Let it Be” by The Beatles. I’d like to think I’ve been into music an awful long time. I’ve got my own studio nowadays and I’d like to think I make stuff as good as anything on sale out there as well. The joy of making your own music as close to the “million dollar studio” sound is a real buzz.

But this time, I’m going to try a different tack. I’d like to talk this time about the history of commerce in regards to music, and how it’s evolved the way it has.

In particular, consider the “bobby soxer” movement in the 40’s where young teenage girls worshipped Frank Sinatra. I’m pretty sure that was the first time that the “music biz” noted how image was an incredibly manipulative tool in regards to marketing music. Of course, Sinatra was, and remains, a totally cool muso who happened to also make movies - but it’s a very salient point. At some point in our formative years, all of us, look to the music of our generation as being something which “speaks on behalf of us” - in a way which we can identify with, and be very loyal to.

In my opinion, the last truly GREAT era for music, in terms of speaking to an entire generation, was the Vietnam era. Some of those protest songs were just wonderful. Also, it was an era which was largely free of institutionalised payola - which certainly can’t be said to be the case today.

But by the early 1970’s I started to see the onset of “glam rock”, and “country rock”, and then disco, and then New Wave, and Punk, and then Goth, and then Hair Metal, and then Grunge, and then boy bands, and girl bands, and hip hop, and rap, and gangsta rap - etc, etc, etc, - ad nauseum.

Essentially, the music business recognised that maximum profits were going to be achieved by creating a genre of music for every possible demographic - in pretty well every corner of the western world. And then we started to see the advent of “ghettoised radio” - that is, radio stations that only played certain genres of music, and never the twain shall mix ever again.

In particular, the music business discovered marketing - big time. Big, BIG TIME. And their research discovered that an awful lot of people - especially under 25 years of age - choose their music based on how they wish to identify themselves. From a marketing psychology point of view, this discovery was a veritible bonanza - it allowed pure manipulation of the market place across every demographic from TV to magazines to FM radio. All of it became an incestuous self propagating monster designed to exploit that one common bond which exist in all of humanity - that is, the belief that we wish to belong - to something, anything.

As a result, it’s a total fallacy and disingenuous thing to say that “the music belongs to the fans”. Within reason, almost every possible chord structure has already been discovered. Almost every possible chord sequence has been fleshed out. Almost every possible tempo has been played with, and almost every possible melodic phrasing has been explored. In short, less that 1 tenth of 1 per cent of every new song which is released for sale these days is genuinely “new” - and by far the huge majority of music for sale nowadays is some sort of rehashed, stolen, plagiarised form of theft - to a lesser or greater degree. Ergo, to say that “the music belongs to the fans” is bunkum - in reality, the only thing that belongs to the fans is that “it’s now your turn sucker” to be tickled by the marketing machine of YOUR generation. It’s your turn to be ripped off and sold crap music which has been repackaged as some great new revolution.

Of course, artists like Norah Jones prove that there’s still class out there - no denying that at all. But man, I gotta tell ya, I’m really good at music, I do it all, and the results are equal to anything - and indeed any and all of you are welcome to listen to my tunes anytime you want - but I’ll be frank, I’ve been offered record contracts and the dance that you have to do with the devil is so fucking extreme that I’d rather just keep my music to myself thank you. I don’t want the fame. I’ve got my own business with 8 employees and I’m comfortable. I don’t need to be successful in the marketplace to know that I’m a good musician and singer and songwriter. I know that already, and as such, let me tell the OP this… the music does NOT belong to you. In my case, my music belongs to me, and the dance that I’d have to do with the devil for you to become aware of it simply isn’t worth it.

Mr2001 - Not sure was MPSIMS is, but stapled to walls will become tomorrow task. I was mostly venting. Sorry if I posted wrong.

Donovan-Thanks, this is first time I used message boards. I actually found it great in opening my mind to some different points of views. I might have to read some other topics.

One more point. Does anyone realize there are some good kids out there that are really fanatic. My wife manages a fast food resturant and a lot of the kids are really upset at what could happen to them. They were telling her that the police where coming to homes and taking computers. I am not sure where that come from other than the minds of 16 and 17 yo kids. I don’t think they really consider themselves doing anythign terrible bad. And I can’t help but feel a little sorry for them.

Well I have said my fill on the subject. I would like to thank everyone for there opinion. And I still submit to the fact that if you agree, also agree to boycott music and to spread the word.

I am only 35. I was one when my brother got his butt shot off in Nam in 1970. And I enjoy the songs of that era for reasons I’m not sure why. A lot what you say make sense and is great food for thought.

I personally love Classical music. I have a hard time understanding why everyone could not love something some beautiful to the ears. But each to their own I always say. And I try to be open minded. I’ll listen to my daughter’s Eminem CD and can enjoy it in a very weird way while trying to sharing something in common with her.

I can’t pretend to understand the music industry. Certainly not like you. From my eyes, I see singers and songwriters and seem to want nothing but fame. Eminem said something in one of his songs about one shot at fame. I could be wrong, but it seems a lot of artists are focused on the money and the fame. They make the music and it belongs to them, maybe the way I made a dog house that now is mine (well more the dogs). Now I could try to sell dog houses for a living, but if they all turned out like the first one, I am not going to have many buyers. That is the way I see some musicians. I heard people say they do not care for Eminem. He is rather rude. His “public” will lose interest and he will be nobody next year. At least from what I am hearing. You can make music and it is yours, but if no one wants it, then what to do you have? Not fame and money. And in your case, that doesn’t seem your main focus. But for those others, the music is for the fans. When my daughter stops liking Emenim, his CD will sit back with the Backstreet Boys, and Britney Spears. This is what I meant by “the music is for ‘us’ Fans”. Possesion my law to the artist, but made for other.

My point with this post was that if I can get just one out of every hundred of these 60 million+ fans to refrain from buying just one CD or one concert ticket in protest of the way the labels are handling things, then maybe, just maybe they could find a more civil way of handling the problem other than to sue a 12 yo. And I may be simple in the thought that I could do something, but I certainly would do nothing if I do not at least try.

One question for you, if I may. Do you agree that 31% losses over three years could really be caused for file swapping alone? There might be some loss, but that really sounds like a large. number.

Don’t worry, that stuff happens. This will probably become a debate soon enough anyway. :wink:

MPSIMS is the “Mundane Pointless Stuff I Must Share” forum, which you can find at the SDMB main page or by selecting “forum jump” at the bottom. Venting and general comments without a question are usually put in MPSIMS or in the BBQ Pit.

Oh, and welcome to the SDMB. :slight_smile:

It doesn’t sound likely to me, considering how little impact file sharing has had in the past. I haven’t been following the RIAA press releases - where did that number come from?

CBS News is where I got it from. They are also coming up with software to cause damage or destroy your PC for download copywrited material. I guess that is fighting fire with fire.

Of course I thought we had that technology. It is called a virus or a trojan. We toss (or should) hackers in jail for these things.

Oh well. Another day in paradise.

I had a link to the actual profit and loss statements for the (coglomeration of) the RIAA members, but can’t seem to find it now. IIRC it was somewhere on the EFF’s website. I apologize for not having the cite handy, will get it if I can find it.

The gist of the situation is that the numbers they are spitting out to the media, are wholly bogus though. The actual ‘losses’ they have experienced were just a difference in their actual profits versus their projected profits, not a loss in revenue. And the actual difference was only somewhere around 12%, not 31%. It also didn’t take into account the facts that they raised CD prices in a down economy, that the economy is down in the first place, that they produced fewer CDs to begin with, and sold more CD’s through services like BMG than they typically had in the past.

The biggest hit they took to projected profits, and where I think they are bitching the most, is to the sale of Singles. IIRC the sale of singles dropped like 40% over the last 5 years, and this is likely where they are taking their biggest ‘hits’ from online piracy. It’s fairly easy to find singles available online through one of the many services, and quite frankly, it isn’t worth the $10 they are attempting to charge for them in the stores. And most people (pre-teens aside) certainly don’t want to pay $19 for a full CD just to get one or two songs they like.

I personally feel there needs to be serious reform in copyright law, both in the length of operating ownership (virtually unlimited now), and in the rules governing fair use; which I consider file-sharing to fall under, 8 out of 10 times. However, even without it, if the RIAA would stop trying to do business the way it worked in the '80s and instead adopt plans like the iTunes music store and move their business models into the present, they could handidly win back and ‘losses’ due to MP3 trading.
P.S. Just so everyone knows, and this hasn’t been mentioned yet. The RIAA made money off all those ‘party-mix’ tapes you made in the '80s, and all the burned CDs you make today. They get a modest (like $.03) kickback off of EVERY blank cassette and CD sold, and the MPAA (the movie equivalent of the RIAA) get the same off of blank VHS cassettes.

I logged unto the EFF web site at http://www.eff.org/ and it is just the key. And it’s free to join and they have letters set-up to send your congressmen and women. They have a lot of great ideas on how to get the artists paid while we can still enjoy the music over the net.

I haven’t seen any P & L statements yet, but it is a big site. Though your numbers sound a lot more reasonable.

Thanks for the info

Not quite. Only “music CD-R” media has a royalty included in the price; that’s why you need it for standalone CD recorders. Computer CD burners can use the cheaper “data” CD-R media.

However, I think all CD-R media includes the royalty in Canada.

I happen to really, really love music. Plat guitar too but that’s irrelevant right now. When it comes to Sittin’ at the Dock of the Bay, Send in the Clowns, Stairway to Heaven, Smells Like Teen Spirit, et. al., man the music can just take you to another place. I want the talented songwriters, musicians, singers, to be filthy rich for the gift of song they have given me.
Music is their outlet, their expression. They don’t owe it to the fans.

You all sound like music fans to me. Can you imagine it not being there. What if the artists embargoed the music? It’ll never happen of course.
Just because something is easy(downloading), it doesn’t make it right.
We need to see that there is a distinction between what we want to do and what we should do.

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My guess would be copyright infringement.

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Don’t they generally schedule concert tours that coincide with the release of a new album?

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Except that one server could potentially allow someone millions of downloads with a sound quality just about as good as a you’d find on the CD you find at Wal-Mart.

Marc

okay, i dont know a lot about the legal issues and all, so any information would be helpful.

So Kazza is being forced to hand out user names, right? What legal action is being taken against Kazza? Sure i guess Kazza could just be used for digital photos, home audio recordings and webcams, but everyone, even the programmers know it is a medium to share illegal material. Is it not possible for them to just shut KAzza down, and i mean now, not at a later date after they sue millions of 12 year old girls.