Let me put it this way–if you showed me a piece of music written in 6/8 time and asked me how many beats there were in a measure, I’d tell you six. But if you asked me how I’d count it, I’d probably tell you that I’d count it in two–with each beat subdivided into three.
I opted not to describe that subtlety last night, but I am aware of it.
I have no doubt that you’re aware of the subtlety; I just felt that it was worth pointing out that the “top number is the number of beats, bottom number is what gets the beat” rule is not really the whole story. Many, many music students are not aware of compound meter, and the number that can count in 7/8 or 5/8 is (in my experience) disturbingly small (as they try to count all the eighth notes instead of counting the larger beats).
I didn’t mean to single you out, it was just a good opportunity to point out that difference.
fachverwirrt,
Trust me, I wasn’t bothered–my days of purposeful learning of music theory are behind me. I can’t say I’ve ever encountered more than a measure or two of 5/8 or 7/8–in which case the take home message was more “watch the director” than anything else.
I have a new found respect for that man. I didn’t realized that it was so all over the map. Now that I know, I had to listen to it, and I can’t believe I missed that before.
You go, Ringo!
I’m trying to figure out what measure that is. I can find 3/4, 4/4, and 6/8 in Happiness, but not the other signatures. Here’s a deconstruction of it (and great resource for Beatles and theory nerds.) But it depends on how you want to break down
Weird time signatures aren’t that hard, especially if you just don’t think about them and just feel them (which may take a little practice.)
It was an arrangement, for a marching band at that, so it’s entirely possible that it doesn’t really exist. In case you’re wondering where it was in my music, it’s at the VERY end of Carry That Weight, last three or four bars I think.
I just listened to that part and you’re right, it’s not there. I think it was between the two “sets” of that rising line that bridges Carry That Weight and The End, since it gets weird there and actually threw off my counting the first time I listened.
According to the Complete Scores book (which I’ll admit is not error-free; they put the “When I hold you in my arms” part in 12/8. :dubious:), the 9/8, 10/8 part is “Mother Superior jumped the gun”. There may be other, easier ways to write it, but there’s definitely an extra 8th note in the second measure, when he repeats the line.
Also, something that’s never in sheet music books that I’ve seen: In the Eagles’ song “Take It Easy”, there’s a brief measure of 9/8 right before the vocals come in.
Huh…I never noticed that. Sure enough, right when the drums come in, there’s an extra eighth note there.
Interesting. Looking online, there are some that argue that it is all in 4/4, with what most of us are counting as the “1” of the beat actually being a displaced one, falling on the second eighth note of the fourth beat. If you want to count it this way, then, yeah, you end up falling on the one. I could actually be persuaded by that interpretation, too. (So, instead of counting the opening chord as ONE-and-2-and-3-and-4-and" think of it as “AND-one-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-1-and-2-and-3-and-4-AND-one,” etc. I think it’s a reasonable interpretation, but to me it’s easier to think of the last measure as 9/8.
Yeah, I shouldn’t have said “right before the vocals come in”. More accurately, for anyone following along, it’s where the drums and electric guitar come in.
That’s an interesting interpretation you found, but I don’t know, man. That rhythm guitar sure is putting a lot of emphasis on that downbeat. I would have a hard time calling that the “And” instead of “1”.
The different ways of looking at things remind me of the few times I’ve tried to explain music to my father, who’s a pharmacist… “It’s not science, Dad, it’s art.” 
Speaking of funky introductions, a band I’m playing in is doing a ton of Beatles songs for a gig this weekend. My drummer, who is as world class a musician as I know, took a few times through to get the entrance timed right for “Drive My Car.” That one has an extra 8th note in it that throws counting off in a really awkward way.
Another funky Beatles intro is in “Everybody’s Got Something to Hide Except for Me and My Monkey.” There’s a quick bass drum kick on 1, and then strong guitar chords on the and of one, two, and three. It’s really easy to hear those guitar chords as being on the beat instead of off. I’m singing it, and I have to focus and count in my head or my entrance gets a little off.
The thread I found the discussion in is here. There’s a link to the guitar sheet music of “Take It Easy” and it is indeed notated in 4/4, with the guitar strums as falling on the beat before the 1. I sure feel that strum as a “1”, not an anticipated beat, but you can probably convince me either way.
Interesting read. Yeah, like I said, I’ve never seen any sheet music version that incorporates a 9/8 measure, but that’s still what it sounds like to me. Of course, this was back in the day of tape-splicing, so maybe it’s just a messy editing job!
ETA: Actually, I just listened to the “Hell Freezes Over” live version and they recreate the same thing… still sounds like 9/8 to me. Also, if you listen to Jackson Browne’s version (he wrote it), I think that’s where the guys in that discussion would be right… he’s putting the accent on the “and” of 4, but when the drums come in it’s a smooth transition and stays in 4/4.
The more I listen to it, the more I prefer the 4/4 anticipated beat analysis of it to the 4/4 with a measure of 9/8 analysis. But it doesn’t really matter–it pretty much comes down to the same thing in the end.
I used to have a book of Steve Howe guitar solos–you know, “Mood for A Day”, “The Ancient”, and so on from the early Yes albums. As it turned out most of the other tunes were scored for guitar and synths, so I couldn’t really play them.
But in “The Ancient” I remember there was one point where there was a chord in a measure all by itself, but it was a very narrow measure with a time sig of 1/8! I couldn’t read terribly well back then, but I had the record so was able to learn the tune.