This might not be the appropriate forum, but if it needs to be moved, please move it.
I was just thinking about this today, while listening to Blue Rondo ala Turk, by Dave Brubeck. Why is it that most songs are written in 4/4, or common time? Is it because it is just easier to play than something like Blue Rondo, which is in 9/8? Or, is it because we have a natural affinity for something related to powers of 2? I’m not sure. Any ideas?
Andrew
I think anything in 2 or a multiple thereof just feels natural. It’s the way we walk, the way we breathe, the way we make love, etc. I think that we are also conditioned to like it from past works, which makes us want to write stuff more like that, and the cycle gets perpetuated. As far as writing – well, things just divide up so easily in 4.
And if you don’t buy that, well then explain the great popularity of 3/4 and 6/8.
Oh, and one more thing – you ever try dancing to something in 11/16? Hurts when you fall, don’t it?
Seeing as how nearly all modern Western music is derived from secular peasant dances, I bet that’s a huge part of the answer. Notice that Gregorian chant is meterless. Monks were usually discouraged from doing the Macarena.
Though I admit that I know very little about non-Western music, other musical cultures (Indian music, for example) base their music on different units than multiples of four.
As a musician, I would venture to say that triplet feel time signatures (3/8, 6/8, 3/4, 9/8, etc.) are actually easier to play than 4/4. From a technical standpoint, strict 4/4 structures provide less give and take than groups of 3 and 6.
I gotta disagree. As an instrumentalist, I find 4/4 easiest (cut me some slack – I’m a guitarist). As a conductor, 2/2 is by far my favorite, but I like 3/4 as well. A slow 6/8 is a bitch. As a composer, I have to say I have the most fun with 3/4.
Quite contrary, most Indian music I’ve heard is in 4 (or 2). Then again, most Indian music I’ve heard was in movies, in which most – nay, all – of the action was dancing.
About the dancing thing, why is it so difficult to dance to something in 11/16? Do we unconsciously synchronize our movements to the downbeat, so that having an odd number of beats throws us off? It doesn’t seem to matter with a waltz, which is 3/4. Or could a musician write a song that is subdivided in a way, that while written in 11/16, it is easy to dance to? What I mean, using Blue Rondo as an example, is Brubeck (or whoever wrote the song) divided it into 2-2-2-3, instead of the usual 3-3-3.
And which Indian are you talking about, Native American, or India?
Andrew
This may be too off-topic, but could someone give me a brief explanation of what time signatures are? I’ve seen as related to music, but it dawns on me that I have no idea what a time signature is.
A time signature is a fraction. The numerator (top number) indicates the number of beats in a measure. If the top number is four, you count 1, 2, 3, 4, over and over again. If it’s three, it’s 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, etc etc.
The denominator indicates, to some degree, the type of note that gets the beat (if you don’t read music this may be slightly confusing).
In standard notation, a measure (arbitrary division of music based upon the number of beats as proscribed in the previous paragraph) can be divided up many ways, all of which can be represented by fractions. You could have half a measure (if there are four beats, then, that would be two beats… if there are three beats, that would be one and a half beats), a quarter measure, a whole measure, etc, etc.
We consider the most common division of a measure to be into four beats, in which case each beat would be 1/4 of a measure. So, if we were to assign notes to each beat, we would call each note a quarter note, as it takes up 1/4 of the whole measure. So, we have 4 beats in a measure, each of which is held by a 1/4 note. This is 4/4 time, with the four beats on top, multiplied, if you will, by the type of note which gets the beat, the 1/4 note. 4/4 is also called “common time”.
So, take 3/4 time. There are three beats in a measure, and the 1/4 note gets the beat. So, there are three quarter notes in each measure of 3/4 time.
That may seem a little strange, because, after all, why are they quarter notes when they’re dividing the measure into thirds?? Well, because we base the nomenclature on 4/4 (common) time, which is kind of at the heart of this thread in the first place, isn’t it?
That may be true on a micro level, but on a macro level, I bet you still think in fours (and twos).
Try to find a song that has an odd number of measures total, or a progression that only goes through three or six measures and repeats. They are rare and far between. Even songs in 3, 6, 9, etc tend to ultimately have a number of beats that are divisible by 2 or 4.
A lot of ragas, AFAIK, are in 5s and 10s, but, as I said, I’m no expert.
Sorry, I really should have put all these in one post.
For more info on time signatures and other music related stuff check out www.musictheory.net.
Hugh, I’m only answering you because of your sig, and because it was on my mind today. Just so you know. A time signature is the number of beats in a measure (which probably doesn’t help you at all).
Listen for a moment to any standard rock and roll song. Just turn on the radio, really. Wait for all the commercials to end. Good, now tap your foot to the beat. Now that you’re tapping, pay attention. Are you unconsciously tapping harder once every two or four beats? Is there a rhythm (particularly in the percussion) that repeats very frequently, like every second or two? Listen for the bass drum, perhaps. That’s a good way to figure out, without looking at the sheet music, how long a measure is.
Now count the beats in a measure. You might say there’s two, your friend might say four, another really hyper friend might say eight. Doesn’t really matter: the piece is most likely in “4/4 time” (spoken: “four four time” or “four quarter time” or “common time”). That means there are four quarter-notes in each measure. The top number is relevant if you’re listening to a song or dancing to it; the bottom number (and the meaning of a quarter note) is largely irrelevant unless you’re performing the song.
Waltzes (like the Blue Danube or REM’s Everybody Hurts) are said to be in “3/4 time” (spoken: “three quarter time” or “waltz time”). It’s tricky, though: without seeing the sheet music, you can’t really tell what the song is written in. The best you can do is say “oh, that’s in three,” and a musician might say “Hm, it sounds more like six,” and you nod appreciatively and say “I guess it could be.” “Everybody Hurts,” now that I think of it, sounds more like six. It has to do with how often the pattern repeats, but I don’t have a foolproof way to tell just by listening.
Dave Brubeck’s album “Time Out” (ha ha) features songs in unconventional time signatures, like his really famous piece, “Take Five”, in 5/4, and the aforementioned “Blue Rondo a la Turk” in 9/8 (which can be counted as though it were in a really fast 3/4, but is pretty clearly in 9).
Nine Inch Nails have a song called “March of the Pigs” that could be in alternating measures of 14/16 and 15/16, or in three measures of 7/8 and one of 8/8, or even in 7/8 with an extra measure of 1/8 every four measures. What it boils down to is when you’re listening to it, you count:
“one-two-three-four-five-six-se’n
one-two-three-four-five-six-se’n
one-two-three-four-five-six-se’n
one-two-three-four-five-six-SE’N-EIGHT,”
and you’re back at the same place in the melody’s loop.
The same album also has a song in thirteen, or possibly in alternating measures of six and seven, with an acoustic guitar bridge in 3/4. It’s amazing.
Hope I’ve cleared it up.
On preview, I see that Eonwe has explained this much more concisely, but dammit, I typed this all and I’m not letting it go to waste.
Hugh
I’ll try to keep it simple.
A song in 3/4 time, a waltz but not necessarily is in
Boom Chick Chick.
4/4 is Boom Chick Boom Chick.
Boom is the base drum.
Chick is a hit on a closed high hat.
Now say Boom Chick Boom Chick over and over. (outloud please)
Now say Boom Chick Chick, Boom Chick Chick over and over. (yes again outloud)
Now you know.
And knowing is half the battle.
As a sax player I get all kinds of strange sigs in blues and jazz…I hate that!
I love a 4/4 because I can subdivide it more easily. That could be because I am kinda dumb, or just that I started playing in 4/4 when I was a kid. In any case, I would rather see a 4/4 than a 2/2 or a 3/4 because I can subdivide triplets and quarters and eights and whatnot more easily.
I’m a drummer, and I’d also disagree with that. I could play 4/4 in my sleep (in fact I probably do) but 3/4 or 6/8 I have to think about - especially when playing fills, as the feel is not so “automatic”. Mixing up triplets and sixteenth triplets in 4/4 beats is fun, though. Similarly shuffle rhythms require a bit more concentration.
I think this is largely a cultural thing - we grow up listening to 4/4 beats, and that’s what we automatically start to play.
I’m a drummer, and I’d also disagree with that. I could play 4/4 in my sleep (in fact I probably do) but 3/4 or 6/8 I have to think about - especially when playing fills, as the feel is not so “automatic”. Mixing up triplets and sixteenth triplets in 4/4 beats is fun, though. Similarly shuffle rhythms require a bit more concentration.
I think this is largely a cultural thing - we grow up listening to 4/4 beats, and that’s what we automatically start to play.
As strange as the 2.5/4 in the fifth movement of Lincolnshire Posy?
I would guess because we aren’t all that coordinated. Not that it is impossible to dance to such strange meters – there was Stravinsky, but people that dance to that are highly trained professionals.
As far as the waltz goes, 3/4 is not a terribly complex meter. It feels very natural to most people.
The reason Brubeck did that was to purposely sound odd. The emPHAsis is deliberately skewed to sound novel, and therefore difficult to dance to.
Could a composer make 11/16 danceable? Depends on the composer, I guess. And the dancers.
Not to sound snarky, but how many dance movies have you seen by Native Americans? 