Musical Pet Peeves (Piano)

Cafe Society
1

Hi SD.

Please look at the following video of “A Thousand Years” as performed by the PianoGuys (Piano and Cello Cover).

I must be crazy, but his playing style bothers me. It comes off as arrogant and pretentious. Am I the only one who thinks so? I find it very Liberace and totally fake.

I HATE HATE HATE when people exaggerate at the piano. I’m a professional pianist and was taught better by a Russian teacher, who was excellent. From her, I learned my “classical chops”. And I’m not ashamed to admit I was that guy at the recital who did these exaggerated motions.

But now that I’m older, I have discovered it’s more economical to play with my hands in a “bad position”, with my wrists down and not curved like they teach you. I could see where if you’re a concert pianist for a living, the wrist movement and dramatics would be expected, but for this gigging musician it’s a joke.

It’s a really big pet peeve of mine to see pianists make a show of lifting their wrists or hands, or pretending to push into the piano like this guy does. I was taught that movement like this helps your tone, but I would challenge that teaching. I feel like any gain you make in the quality of the tone by pushing your wrists up and down dramatically is energy lost to pointless dramatic presentation. In the real world, save your energy and don’t try and make yourself look like a genius…it just makes you look stupid. I can’t do a three hour gig playing like that! I’d be exhausted.

Similarly, the head movement! The shaking of the head is just so pretentious, in my opinion. Like, don’t bother me, I’m genius-ing.

Again, this is just, like, my opinion, man. I’m well aware most people don’t care either way, or are willing to be taken in by the act…but I’m not. I think you can get your musical point across just fine without the exaggerated movement and head bobbing. I also understand you have to give them something to look at as well as listen to, but in my playing I favor them with a sly smile, or I close my eyes. Nothing grand or showy. You know, you want to be in control of the music, without doing the equivalent of “LOOK AT WHAT I CAN DO! IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE BECAUSE LOOK AT ME!!!1!!!1!!”

I’d like to know if other people agree that this style of playing comes off as fake and/or arrogant.

Or do I just not get it?

Also, can anyone provide YouTube videos that show perceived arrogance or show-off type of behavior on other instruments? I would love to see how this kind of behavior manifests itself outside piano music in particular!

Thanks for your comments!

Dave

2

You have to do something to make it seem special when you’re playing a crappy arrangement of thin music? (See also: playing a baby grand piano in the woods.)

3

Nothing looks pretentious to me in that video.

4

That was a lot tamer than I expected, based on your description.

And I think the cellist gives him a run for his money with regard to pretension.
mmm
ETA: For that matter, so does the cinematographer

5

Guitarist checking in. I was distracted by the obvious fact that the performance was sync’d with a studio recording. When you put the video in a setting like that, but the mix sounds very studio, any effort to show expression in performance comes across as “off” to me.

As for the mannered expressiveness - meh, it is the classical players’ equivalent to Guitar Orgasm Face. When you are really playing and the expressiveness of your hands or face fit within what you are playing, perhaps with a bit of sales (but not too much!), it can work. If your expressions don’t sync up - because you are faking it for a video, or you are dialing in your performance, then, yeah: yuck.

Yes, as a rule, I prefer to see economy of movement. As long as there is a bit of humanity in the playing, though - not metronomic shredding. It’s like the football coach Paul Brown commenting on touchdown celebrations: they should act like they’ve been there before.

6

Another guitarist here. I’d agree that their facial expressions are the equivalent of “guitar face” , but they’re hand movements, etc. don’t come off as over the top showmanship. As you seem to know, classical players will arc their hands to places up by (and over) their heads

Now, for perspective, I think of everything Angus Young does in this clip of Let There Be Rock isn’t over the top, for the context of a rock show. After about 6:00, he climbs on his amp, holds his arm up in the air for some one-handed hammer ons, spins around on the floor like Curly, and walks on his knees. If you do any of that in a rock show, it’s just part of the act.

Now, what do I think is a pompous, silly act in a rock show? Smashing your instruments. It was pase’ after it was expected for The Who to do it. Jimi Hendrix totally buried it when he set his guitar on fire. After that, you weren’t impressing, you were just making the available pool of instruments smaller. So, if you want to destroy your instruments and not look like an un-creative dope to me, you’ll have to come up with a method that beats setting it on fire and continuing to play it.

7

I don’t really see anything to critique about his hands, hey, whatever works. The facial expressions, especially the cellist’s, are as sappy as the music though.

8

Not as bad as Glenn Gould, who was famous for humming along with his playing, so loudly that it is plainly audible on several of his recordings.

A bit of dramatic gesturing? I grant it’s pretentious, done for the camera. But it doesn’t really seem to interfere with the performance, so…let him have it. If he wants to wear a Bozo nose and no pants…s’okay with me: I only care for the audio track anyway!

9

I haven’t seen the video yet, but I’m confident that you can’t change the tone by technique, and those who think you can should use a green magic marker on their CDs to make then sound better too.

Bach said that the piano is a marvellous instrument. You push the key and the instrument plays itself. True then and true now.

I’ll watch the video later and comment on the style. Every now and then I catch myself making an unnecessary flourish and I feel a bit foolish, putting on airs.

On the other hand, sometimes it just feels right, and anything that helps … helps.

10

If I were a famous musician, I’d do this and consider it good showmanship. I’ve emoted with every instrument I’ve competently played (mostly in private, I don’t like to perform). So sax, piano, and percussion. Sure it’s possible to play like an animatron, and play well, but where’s the fun in that? It’s not as if they’re doing something ridiculous like rolling around on the ground with a guitar. I love seeing musicians in the zone, and can’t really understand how anyone could find it offensive.

11

Hi Rachellelogram.

I hear what you are saying about musicians being in the zone, but it’s hard for me to reconcile my own style with what I am looking at in the video. Being in the zone to me is mental, not physical. If your creativity and passion are at its peak, it should come through in your playing, not your dramatic gesturing. Maybe a smile here or an eyebrow raise there would be enough to convey confidence and mastery of the instrument. Upon further reflection, I am starting to realize how thin the line is between just enough emotion and “too much.” I think this discussion needs to focus on how much tone quality is actually influenced by physical movement.

Being taught that it does make a difference by my Russian teacher, I began to believe it. It may be something that people believe because they want to believe it.

Only on Steinways have I personally imagined that I’ve experienced this kind of connection. It’s plausible to me that on the best pianos, (which I believe Steinways to be), how you touch a key or lift your wrist makes a somewhat discernible difference in the actual sound coming out of the piano.

I suppose it may be a pet peeve I will have to live with, if the general consensus is that these gestures are permissible as a way of improving “performance” and thus, entertainment value, if not overall quality of sound.

It also might speak to my own jealousy that I don’t do the same gestures, my own jealousy that I don’t experience the obvious pleasure they seem to derive from their playing. The visceral reaction I get whenever I see that could simply be jealousy.
Thanks for your input, and others’ as well!

Dave

12

What would your teacher have to say about Angela Hewitt and her facial expressions?

13

I certainly believe that how you play into the key helps with control. Whether you come down with fingers, wrist, or elbow, etc can effect the evenness of the tone and accuracy of timing. It depends on the player. There’s nothing wrong with headbobbing–it’s just a way of keeping time or “feeling” the music. As a player, I have an involuntary movement of the lips. I don’t notice it, I have no idea that I’m doing it, but when I play my mouth is always moving and mouthing. I’m not skatting or anything. It’s apparently something I’ve always done and helps with me keeping time and playing. And, of course, I have to stomp my left foot at more rocking numbers. If I don’t, my timing and feel is not as good. So I’m willing to give these motions a wide swath, although I don’t find any of the motions in the video linked particularly exaggerated. If I don’t get my whole body into it and feeling the music, it comes out in my playing. Yesterday, for example, I was recording a few tracks for a sketch of a song: guitar, drums, bass. I was curled up on the bed for the guitar and bass and tried to use economy of motion to get my parts down. They sucked. Timing and feel was completely off. As soon as I got off the bed and let my whole body get into it, left foot chugging along, body swaying back and forth in time, the parts starting sounding much tighter. Everyone’s different.

14

Aw, look at the tiny piano!

Anyway, it’s a *video. *Some “pretension” may have been selected for in shooting and editing the visual material.

The tiny piano undercuts the look of it a bit. :smiley:

Nice music, anyhow.

15

I have a pet peeve as well. I HATE HATE HATE it when a musician just sits there and plays without any bodily indication that he’s feeling anything, expecting all his emotions to be expressed by his finger tips alone. Are your finger tips so expressive that they can convey everything that’s contained in the music? Do you not feel anything beyond what they can express? It has nothing to do with “showmanship” or “dramatic posturing,” but everything to do with how the music moves you, yourself. When I see someone just sitting there, apparently unmoved by his own playing, I figure: If he’s not fully experiencing his own music, how am I supposed to be responding to it?

Your Russian teacher was right.

16

Hi Panache,

Point taken.

But I have two thoughts for you:

  1. Are you going to give the benefit of the doubt to somebody who is “moved” by their own playing, even if it looks ridiculous? How do you know that it is just an outpouring of emotion rather than showmanship? Where is that line and how do you know whether someone’s crossed it? I’d feel really stupid as an audience member if I had to defend somebody’s overplaying. Ugh, I just don’t like the idea of marveling to a friend, “Wow! Look how into it he is! Look at his face, the way he moves his wrists, how he does a flourish! He’s so great!!!”

What I’m trying to say is, haven’t you been to a performance where you don’t think the performer is anything special and everyone else is taken in by the visual flourishes and showmanship? I don’t want to be those guys who are so easily entertained or blown away by things that anybody can do. Many people don’t understand where the actual magic is–in the music itself, the musical choices made by the performer. Am I wrong? If you think so, look at anybody who imitates musicians. They can make the same dramatic motions and do it in a way that appears comedic. The talent comes in when you listen to the creative thoughts of the performer come out. Maybe the gesturing is just a way of giving the audience something to look at. Maybe the performer enjoys his music inside but doesn’t want to distract the audience with theatrics. In a way, it makes it easier to entertain the “masses,” but I’d prefer an audience of critics who can enjoy based solely on what they hear.

I was taught as a young man never to become arrogant or show-off. I don’t know if I’ve completely taken these lessons to heart, but I come from that perspective that understatement is always better so no one can accuse you of saying “Look how great I am.”

  1. You say,

“I figure: If he’s not fully experiencing his own music, how am I supposed to be responding to it?”

When I was doing classical recitals, I’d agree with you. My Russian teacher taught me everything we’ve discussed. I made the music into a performance (as the only person on the stage), and I knew people followed my face and hand movements. It was a journey that was undertaken, and I had to involve people in my own experience. As harrowing as it was, the payoff was huge.

Now that I’m thinking about it, Panache, I wonder if it has to do with the type of music you are playing. Serious classical works may invite this kind of movement; it can be a natural extension of your emotion. But putting that same stuff in a cover of a pop song? Does it really affect you that much? Such thin music, such predictability…how can you possibly compare the first song linked “A Thousand Years” to Clair de Lune?

The answer to your question is: you are right. Almost like, why go to a musical performance if you don’t want to be moved? Why reject any chance to reach that higher level, the goal of all musicians, where everything for a moment is just magic?

Maybe then, as an audience member, you have to sacrifice your own natural critic and take a chance. And I guess, if you and the performer reach that magic place, you can forgive any dramatics.

As a musician though, it takes a lot of energy to do those motions. I prefer to let the music do the talking. These motions still seem just pretentious and done for the sake of doing them. I don’t want to be “that guy” but based on what people are saying here, I may have to if it gives me a better chance of helping the audience reach the height of enjoyment.
I think I’ve rambled enough. Love to hear yours and others’ responses.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Dave

17

Sure it does. I play mostly pop/blues-type music these days. And I mostly play for myself, by myself. When I really want to get into the music, I shut off all the lights, close my eyes, and get into the music. Something like, say, a two-chord jam on the Allman Brother’s “Jessica” can really get my adrenaline going and I’m sure I have lots of exaggerated motions because I feel inside the music. I can get as emotional playing something like that, or Massive Attack’s “Teardrop” or U2’s “Still Haven’t Found What I’m looking for” (all basically three-chord songs, though “Teardrop” has a fourth chord) as I can with Chopin’s Nocturne in E flat (Op 9, No 2). All those songs have meaning to me, hence when I play them, I can’t help but get into the music with my body, my entire being. And it’s not for show, as there’s nobody watching the vast majority of time I’m performing them. Like I said, everyone is different. But when I’m playing, I mean really playing, my body and face needs to be in it.

18

The issue is “authenticity” - if you believe Stevie Ray Vaughn is truly improvising and moving from rhythm to lead fills with ferocious spontenaity, then all of this guitar orgasm face and blues histrionics look incredibly authentic and cool. I fall into that camp.

Judging expressionist moves when someone is faking it for video already presents an “uncanny valley” that throws us (well, me) off. That’s why Jimmy Fallon has built a whole shtick around those Lip Sync wars.

Beyond that, if a person feels authentic within themselves, I am open to a wide variety of expression. Someone tightly coiled and efficient can be minimally intense; watching Vladimir Horowitz laugh with glee while executing impossible triplets is cool, too. And the Stevie Ray, Elton John, Janis over-the-top-ness can work in the right hands, too.

19

May I use this as a sig line? Attributed of course. This will also be my new catch phrase when coworkers show up at my cube. :slight_smile:

20

I’m a pianist too, though not a concert pianist, but I have to thoroughly disagree with the OP here. I can’t watch the video, but I’m familiar with their channel. Yes, in a video things are going to be a little showy, but that’s part of the point. In my opinion, the point of a video of a song is that it should add something to the sound, if it doesn’t, I’d rather just listen to the song and, if there’s lyrics, read those, or close my eyes and imagine, or be looking at something else. To a large extent, videos just showing the artists performing, particularly if it’s in the manner they might be performing in a studio, adds very little to it.

Further, I’ve heard all kinds of things about all kinds of instruments about how various things affect tone. Yes, some of them do, but I think a lot of it is just nonsense. What matters most to me, as a musician and, more importantly, as a member of the audience of a performance, is that the artist is expressing and entertaining. Sure, what I play, I could probably find the most efficient way to play a piece, but that’s missing the point of a performance. The performer should be experiencing and emoting along with the piece. So, when I play, I will sometimes have exaggerated hand movements or bob my head or whatever and I do that even when I practice by myself because it’s how I feel the piece. I don’t consider it “showy” unless they go all virtuoso and, say, play a guitar behind their head or start spinning/tossing their drumsticks or, when I’ve seen keyboardists/pianists perform as such, have them on spinners and spin them around as they’re playing. But, you know, if I’m there to see a virtuoso perform, that’s part of the entertainment value.

But really, why is head bopping or inefficient hand movement in anyway a bad thing? Having been to countless concerts, sure I remember the virtuoso stuff, but many of my favorite moments were also ones where, at least to me, it really seemed like the performer was feeling what he was playing. Maybe it affects the sound, maybe it doesn’t, but it certainly affected my experience because it helped me connect to the performer. To me, that’s pretty much the whole reason I go to see a live performance. If I want the technically perfect sound, the album on a good system beats a live concert every time. I’m there to feel the energy and the connection between the performer and the audience.