Why did (do?) some musicians count up to four (McCartney on Sergeant Pepper comes to mind) before starting a tune? And why are there variations in the number (mostly either ‘one, two, three’ or ‘one, two, three, four’)?
IANAM (I am not a musician), but I would guess that they’re setting the tempo for the song. As for the “1234” vs. “123”, it would depend on the time signature of the song. A song in 4/4 time would get a four-count, and a song in 3/4 time would get a three-count.
It’s so everyone starts at the same time and it also sets the empo for the song.
As far as the count goes it depends on the time signature of the song.
Most radio stuff is in 4-4 time. 4 1/4 notes per meaure. So you count to 4 to start the song. If the song is in 3/4 time (probably the next most used time signiture) you count to 3.
Slee
Thanks for the input, Joe. But don’t the others know the tempo already, if only for practicing a given song to death. I love music, but I don’t know anything about the ‘technical’ aspects of it (as is plain to see:D). So, sorry if this is a less than brilliant sub question.
Could you expand on that, Slee. I fail to see the relationship between radio play and 4-4 time. Why does it have to be so?
Yeah, they should be able to keep the tempo find once they get going, but musicians aren’t human metronomes; Without a conductor, they have to listen to each other to maintain the same tempo. When starting a song, if several of the musicians have to start playing at the same time, it’s very difficult to keep things together during the first couple of bars without some sort of countoff.
That, I totally understand. It was the three and four bit that had me confused. I naively thought, it was left to the ‘leader’s’ whim. But both you and Slee managed to give a clear explanation to this neophyte. This neophyte is grateful.
It doesn’t have to be; It just is. The majority of Western music is in 4/4 time, so of course the majority of what’s on the radio is going to be in 4/4 time.
As a drummer, I used to do the 4-count, and sleestak is correct. Think of it this way: If I count down the tempo as 1-2-3-4 then the rest of the group knows that the very next beat begins the song, and everyone starts on time.
The four-count is always done. One of the many bands I played in, the lead guitarist would just swing his guitar up and then down and we would start to play. But it’s still a way to start the song together.
Another way that comes to mind is when the lead guitarist starts a lick by himself and the other instruments “layer in”. A song to represent this method is The Allman Brothers Band version of You Don’t Love me, the old Willie Cobbs tune, which you can find on the Brothers Live at The Fillnore East.
Quasi
Yeah…I realized, a bit late, that my last sentence should have been rephrased. So, then, there is no special reason, except for the fact that…that’s just the way things are, eh?
Fillmore East, sorry!
Q
And up there I wrote “the 4 count is always done”. That should have read “isn’t always done”.
And I’m stone cold sober, too, damn!
Q
You sure you haven’t left something else out, Q?
I actually want to maybe amend something here. You will also hear a 3 count if you’ve got a tune in 4 that starts on the pickup. In fact, from my experience, this is more common than a 3 count for a song in 3, as more rock/pop songs are in 4 than 3.
You also might just hear a “3, 4,” which is just the last two beats of a bar, so that the drummer (or whoever) doesn’t have to count out one whole measure of empty time.
I’ve just got to say, my all-time favorite 4 count on an album is in the middle of the song Born to Run off the album of the same name by Bruce Springsteen.
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- For studio recording if using a verbal count will cause any problems, they use low and high beeps in time with the music, low-low-low-high. They put them on tracks that are removed after the intended tracks are recorded, and (during in-studio recording) they usually repeat until the drummer begins playing. The notes are very short plain beeps. Some PC music creation software includes the ability to insert these (two specific) notes, just for this purpose.
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- For studio recording if using a verbal count will cause any problems, they use low and high beeps in time with the music, low-low-low-high. They put them on tracks that are removed after the intended tracks are recorded, and (during in-studio recording) they usually repeat until the drummer begins playing. The notes are very short plain beeps. Some PC music creation software includes the ability to insert these (two specific) notes, just for this purpose.
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4/4 time is just SO common in western culture’s music.
Well, except for waltzes, which are in 3/4, IIRC. And stuff from Yes and Rush, often. And other tricky bands.
But seriously, just see if you can count 1-2-3-4 along with the radio next time you have it on, and you’ll find out almost for sure that you’re coming to the main beat in the same place every time.
I now have a question: Is the main beat considered generally to be the 1 or the 4? I used to play violin as a kid, but with that instrument, you don’t usually get to play with someone providing a beat and emphasizing it.
The down beat is usually on 2 and 4. Think one TWO three FOUR. The simplest way to figure it out is to listen for the snare.
Of coarse it depends on the type of music or band. For example listening to Rush and counting can get somewhat confusing the first time around as they tend to change time signatures often.
Slee
I like music that’s in 5/4. Like, for example, the original Mission Impossible theme, and a cool jazzy number called Take 5 (named after its time signature, I believe).
Thanks all. As I said, I love music, but am totally unaware of its mechanics. Now, I know a little more.
The count-in as used by The Beatles (and others) is frequently decorative or structural and rarely wholly functional (in the sense of setting the tempo) – the multiple, layered count-ins at the start of Taxman being a striking example. Even in the 60s recording technology would have allowed extraneous count-ins to be editted out.
My classical guitar duo partner and I can start on the vaguest of nods, but I like to mess wiv 'er 'ead by counting in “2-3-4”* regardless of time signatures. Sometimes I don’t even count in at the right tempo (beats per minute), it doesn’t matter that much at all, just hitting the first beat together is usually enough to get started.
Also, whilst it is true that 4/4 is the most common time signature (oops, no pun intended) in the world of rock ‘n’ roll, a quick glance through my duo repertoire tells me that 3/4 and 6/8 are more frequently occurring there.
*I don’t know why the “1” is missed out