Those would be his thinking I was open to corruption, not beholden to him. I still aver that he’d not have a reason to use my participating in his son’s cheating later. It would be different if I were, say, studying for my MFA or some such, but as I am not, the negative consequences of my being discovered helping his son cheat are all-but zero. He’d be an idiot to try to use an unethical but non-criminal & non-business-related act to try to blackmail me into committing an unethical criminal or unethical business-related act
It’s a shame to see moral behaviour described as self-righteous.
I think you should feel guilty about cheating for your relative and find your justification of ‘he didn’t have the time’ laughable.
I have never smoked weed (nor tobacco), never driven above the speed limit and always cross the road correctly.
I’m a teacher and the pupils respect me when I tell them how to behave because they know how I behave.
I drive above the speed limit and jaywalk, but no I don’t smoke weed. And yes, that’s because it’s illegal. The penalties for jaywalking and speeding are minimal. The penalties for getting caught with pot aren’t, so I don’t consider it worth it.
The strange thing about cheating, generally, is that it isn’t worth it. Now, it’s important to note that I’m risk averse to an almost pathological degree, but I think my reasoning is still rational. If a student can get through the class, they can get their degree. This doesn’t require an A, just a passing grade. If the student gets caught cheating, they can be kicked out of the school, potentially losing all previous work toward the degree. The risk is too high in comparison with the potential reward, and so I wouldn’t cheat.
I’m not making a moral or ethical argument, just a practical one.
I didn’t cheat in school, but for ego-based reasons. Cheating would have implied that I couldn’t do the assignment, and I was entirely too full of myself to admit such a thing.
I’m sorry that I took offense where none was meant. I apologize for my snarkiness.
I take things on a case by case basis pretty much. I see grey areas every single day. Sometimes the ends will never justify the means.
A woman jaywalking with her toddler following her into the street should be jailed IMO. I don’t think all jaywalkers should be jailed.
A homeless woman stealing a box of tampons out of necessity gets a pass from me. Someone “sampling” grapes in the produce aisle would not.
Lying is wrong. I’ve lied to spare people’s feelings in the past and I’m sure I will in the future. I don’t lie for personal gain and I consider myself an honest person. If I call a little kid beautiful because she needs it, I feel I’m doing a greater good than honestly assessing her physical characteristics and being frank.
I’m all for the decriminalization of weed although I haven’t smoked in over 30 years. I don’t look at the low level dealers or smokers as criminals at all.
I’m an excellent exam taker so I’ve never cheated to do well on a test. I love to read and I love to write.
The young man I helped - and helped is how I see it - had successfully completed most of his work. I guess I considered it evening things up. I came from a middle class, private school background where reading was always a part of my life. He didn’t.
No! The moral behavior is not self righteous. The finger pointing is. Life doesn’t always follow the simple black and white we’re taught.
Thats some pretty impressive hyperbole there sailor! I can see how this copied paper is going to generate a rift in the timespace continuum causing a previously successful graduate who is just about to cure HIV to instead scream “Cheats!”, then fall into a deep, deep coma. All because Skald wrote the paper.
Or perhaps it’s not really that important.
How is this going to cheat somebody who passed through school 10 years before? How is this going to hurt somebody who takes the class next year? And don’t start on bell curves. It’s one student he’s talking about helping. That’s not going to throw the curve.
tim
What’s funny (not ha-ha) is that I don’t even have an undergrad degree. I left school to get married - I was pregnant. I’m pretty much self educated - after a great start at a prep school. As far as the system is concerned, I’m a nitwit since I have no letters following my name and probably shouldn’t have been able to write that paper without taking that course. (Nitwit’s paper was accepted)
His 2nd degree made him eligible for a higher pay grade in his same position.
Well, yeah, one person littering is not a significant environmental hazard, and one person stealing is not going to negatively impact people who pay for things. These things are cumulative, and academic systems only work because the large majority doesn’t cheat.
jali, what exactly were you evening up? You ‘helped’ him, but you helped him cheat. Why leave that part out? If you truly believe the end justifies the means, and that your daughter’s brother in law is entitled to a grade he didn’t earn, why sugarcoat it?
Some of us had good starts - others not so much.
In saying “evening up” I suppose I looked at where he came from and the way he was raised and compared that to what I was able to give to my children.
…I just erased his sad story. No need. Some will never understand and I’m getting sad here trying to explain.
If a non college grad (me) can write a paper that’s accepted in a graduate program… how important is that class…or that paper? Seriously.
I agree with this. Just do it. You’ll enjoy it, the kid will be off the hook for something he isn’t going to use in life and you’ll make a few bucks.
Oh, come on yourself. You can’t be serious. Was the novel part of some academic program? Did the author attest to following the honor code? Was he being graded on the novel? Do you really not understand the difference?
The novelist is absolutely a liar if he puts his name on someone else’s work. Why the hell wouldn’t he be? He’s lying. That pretty much makes him a liar. And if I bought that novel, I would feel cheated if I found out. He is essentially misrepresenting an item that he is offering for sale. That’s dishonest, by definition.
And **Skald **would be an accomplice if he wrote the paper for him. How is that any different from taking a test for another student? It’s cheating, plain and simple.
Nice strawman. Who said it was? What does illegality have to do with anything?
You really really cannot be serious. Their ads? This is a joke, right? Do McCain and Obama claim authorship of their ads?
Or their speeches, for that matter. It’s common knowledge that they employ speechwriters. Nobody is misrepresenting anything. Please show me one example of Obama or McCain claiming authorship of a speech written by someone else.
No honor code at my college at the time, either.
Novels are fiction. The whole thing is a lie. Do you really not understand the difference?
I will say, I may have written it, but it was not my novel. I worked from a very detailed outline. I had pages of detail about each of the main characters. All plot twists courtesy of the person whose name appears on the book.
In an academic setting it’s cheating. In any other setting it’s just work for hire. If Skald were a student he could get kicked out for doing it, but not being a student, there is nothing that can happen to him. It’s unethical, but it’s not criminal. Probably the same for taking a test for another student, except the latter could be considered identity theft.
There are probably people who think the candidates write the ads–probably lots of them. Even more who think they write their own speeches. When they give a speech they are like actors, quoting lines. Do you think the vast majority of people watching television hear it that way?
Before you go slapping the “self-righteous finger-pointer” label on people, remember what this thread is. Skald started the thread by asking a question: Should he write the paper? We are not randomly jumping out of the woodwork and accusing Skald (or anyone else) of anything. We’re answering his question.
I fully comprehend that everyone has a different set of priorities and a different set of core ethics, and I’m not pointing fingers.
Personally, I disapprove of such cheating, and I won’t do it. When I was teaching, I would (and did) throw students out of the class for it.
Smoking weed? I see nothing wrong with it, except for the fact that it’s illegal. There’s a risk/reward ratio issue here. I smoked it in college, because it really wouldn’t have been a big deal to get caught. I haven’t smoked it in decades because the consequences are too serious.
Driving over the speed limit? Guilty. Sometimes. I drive at the speed I feel comfortable and safe driving.
But I still won’t condone that kind of cheating.
WHAT? Your location field doesn’t offer any useful information, but I’d guess you’re one of those big-city dwellers that want to tell everyone else how to live. If there’s nobody within four blocks in either direction on a road with a 25mph speed limit, I see nothing whatsoever wrong with jaywalking with a toddler.
That explains a lot, actually.
Now you’re just fucking with me, right? Who said anything about the *content *being a lie? it’s the claim of authorship that is a lie. Are you even reading my posts? I made that point quite clearly.
That’s not what you said. It sounds to me that you’re a co-author, not a ghost writer. Still, it’s a lie to claim another’s work as one’s own.
Did you miss the part of the OP that identified this situation as being in an academic setting? And I’ll ask you again – where did I say anything about it being criminal? That’s a strawmman argument.
Now you’re just pulling shit out of thin air. “There are probably people … ?” Do you have any kind of support at all for stating that probably lots of people think candidates write their own ads, other than as a product of your own imagination?
And what does that have to do with anything? There are probably lots of people who thin Obama is a terrorist. Does that make him a liar for not being one?
Again, for the third time, the question here concerns claiming another’s work as ones own. Not what some imaginary horde of feeble minded TV drones believes.
Well, did you miss the bit where I said one of my profs took my paper and submitted it and had it published in a journal under his name? Didn’t even mention me as “research help.” Do you think that kind of thing might have affected my ethical ping-o-meter at the time? And this sort of thing went on long after the university adopted an honor code, and probably still goes on today.
Actually the only paper I really felt bad about was one I merely typed. Being a good typist I corrected all the spelling errors, as I’m incapable of typing a word I know to be misspelled (NOTE: I do not say I’m incapable of typos). I also changed a couple of subject-verb disagreements, again, the kind of thing anybody being paid to type a paper would do. I did not recast the awkward, simplistic sentences or fix the errors in logic and other inconsistencies, although it was painful not to.
When the girl came for paper she was very happy, because it was her last paper, she was done, she was graduating, and not only that, she already had a job!
Doing what? Teaching.
Oh yeah? What was her major? English.
Yep. She couldn’t spell and could barely write a sentence, and had at best a haphazard grasp of subject-verb agreement. And she was going to be teaching high-school English in a small Colorado town.
Now, that one I felt bad about. I wanted to hand her back the money and snatch the neatly typed, spelled, and grammared paper out of her hands. But I didn’t.
Sounds like it was the perfect college for you.
I’d say that if you suffer a harm, and conclude from that that causing subsequent harm to others is justified, then ethics is not the proper frame of reference for your argument.
I don’t know why you’d say this. I never submitted anything to any of my profs that wasn’t my work. I already said I would have turned in any student whose paper I graded if I knew it wasn’t that student’s own work, and on occasion, I did. I turned in one girl who submitted the same paper for two classes, two different professors, and she had the bad luck to get me grading both of them. (That wouldn’t have been an honor code violation but she wasn’t supposed to do it.) I really think that people who turn in papers they didn’t write or copy other peoples’ answers on tests are cheaters and should be, first, given an F for the work, and kicked out for any repeat offense.
I’m sorry, this sentence needs some editing, or something. What are you trying to say here?