AIUI, you are arguing that those institutions aren’t in fact doing that, but are admitting unqualified candidates because of the woke mind virus, and need to be prevented by the government from exercising their professional judgment about how best to do their jobs.
I never said, “the most academically qualified”. That may be the disconnect. I don’t think “academically qualified” should be maximized at elite schools. I frankly see no value in doing so.
Not how debate works. Puzzlegal and I are arguing the negative; that at the highest levels of academic achievement, there is no meaningful correlation between grades and actual ability. If you think such a correlation does exist, the burden is on you to go find a cite for that.
What even is the point of elite schools? Not to educate anyone, since academics are of such low importance. Apparently it’s to win at sports and allow the future elite to network. Why are taxpayers subsidising this, exactly?
Regardless, we are not talking only or primarily about ‘elite schools’. The other university in the lawsuit against Harvard was a state college. AFAIK affirmative action is nigh-universal in American universities. In states where racial preferences were already banned, they use various proxies for race or other ways to increase diversity.
Bullshit. I am arguing that the institutions are operating defacto racial quotas within their usual recruitment methods, and I said affirmative action for doctors could be justified.
Nah. This is special pleading. If you are claiming the test conveniently stops working at the point where it would make recruiting enough URM students difficult then you need to provide evidence of that.
You’re complaining that professional educators whose job is to select applicants for admission keep trying to sneak in race-based measures even when courts tell them not to. That suggests that their informed, professional opinion is that these measures are essential to them doing their job properly. Why do you think you, or some judge, is qualified to tell them they are wrong?
I want pilots with actual in the air experience at the controls of a large airplane. I dont give a crap about how they did on a written test.
In the past more airline pilots were ex air force or navy. Are they still?
This is an excellent question. Frankly, without answering this and other questions like “What is the point of a state school?” it’s impossible to determine if their admissions policy is appropriate.
A fair number of people treat college as a prize to be won in high school, and if someone didn’t score higher than everyone else, they didn’t deserve the prize. It isn’t clear to me that this is the right take on a college education, despite how pervasive it is.
How does one allocate this limited resource? It can be highest grades, highest bidder, first come first served, random lottery, alumnus referral, the options are vast, and none of them are inherently wrong, it just depends on what our goals are.
Now that’s a kickoff for a really interesting discussion. Is college intended to teach people specific skills that they can take directly into the job market, or to make them generally more adept at critical thinking, or to network with people who might be helpful to them in the future? If we can’t come to some consensus on this question, it’s going to be hard to formulate any coherent educational policy.
Is the answer really not obvious to you? If the race-based measures they were trying to sneak in favoured white students, you’d hardly entertain the idea that ‘their informed, professional opinion is that these measures are essential to them doing their job properly’, or that it’s no business for a judge.
Or it’s mostly just signalling about ability to future employers:
First, above you cited the use of test scores and grades by college admissions officers as proof that these measures must have some value. But here you seem to be questioning their ability to determine which measures have value.
Secondly, discrimination in favor of white students would perpetuate white supremacy, while discrimination against white students is intended to dismantle white supremacy. Are you saying you see no significant practical or moral distinction there?
You can’t break someone’s legs, then say “Oh gee, I apologize, I see now that breaking your legs was wrong, and I promise not to do that anymore and to treat you as an equal in every way. Now let’s start our footrace!”