You’re right. I was having fried brain syndrome when I posted that, you know, coding too hard with my stubby little fingers. The rest I stand beside, without, you know, the mispelling “receiving” part.
**Note to self:**Multi-tasking at work should not include the SDMB
I guess you never miss a day at work ever? Never taken a sick day or a vacation? Never had an unexpected illness or injury? Never served on a jury or had funeral leave?
Everyone has to cover for the people they work with a little bit or a lot ranging from the “I have to leave an hour early for a dentist appointment” to the “I’m going to be out six months to have a child.” The workplace adapts.
My mother was out six months due to a freak allergy to something in her workplace. They didn’t know month to month how long she would be out for and I’m sure it was difficult to plan around. Somehow everyone muddled through.
My organization doesn’t have “Maternity leave” either. It’s short-term disability. I think “maternity leave” is a convenient term for explaining why someone is out for awhile but I wonder how common it is as an actual policy unto itself. As it was, I got 8 weeks off, paid. It would have been six but I had complications. I elected to take another few weeks off but that came out of my vacation time.
Clearly any other employee with a short-term health issue like this would have the same benefits and courtesies. As it should be.
If an employer chooses not to pay for that time, it certainly is a burden but that’s their choice. No one is entitled. It’s not a great policy, but they chose to make it. I suspect it’s one of these things where you don’t think about it until you need it. Kinda like psych treatment in your HMO. Hey, you were going for the cheap office visit co-pays when you picked it! You didn’t know their therapist coverage sucked ass and you didn’t check because you didn’t count on hearing voices two years down the road.
Those who are put-upon by decent leave policies may look at this as cushy “perk” for breeders or some policy that rips off those poor bastards left behind to fill in. But I think my employer looks upon it as smart business. A benefit like that is a good recruitment tool and a retention tool as well (except, I suppose, for those so disgruntled about the “perk” going to others they go shopping for an employer with a more penurious policy.) And it’s a far sight easier to hold a job open for a well-trained professional member of your team than to plan on them quitting or coming back sooner than is medically wise. You’d have to replace and retrain someone in the first case, or have decreased productivity in the latter. It’s hard for me to understand why this would improve things for those of us “saddled” with all their shirked work.
Finally, I would like to think it’s appealing to my employer as an important benefit to the newborns, with deeper societal ramifications, to give them the best possible start in life with moms able to care for them in those critical early weeks. It ain’t the kid’s fault it was born to a person who works for your employer.
I have been the benefit of a leave policy, and I have been one of the team going the extra mile to fill in for people on leave. Seen both sides of it. I think it’s a good way to go for the reasons mentioned.
Pregnant women don’t get that way to take advantage, to stick it to co-workers, or lead a cushy paid life at home. It’s your employer’s decision how to handle it.
Did I say they should? My comment you quoted was responding to catsix’s complaint that others had to cover the work for those out on leave.
FWIW, my company has a policy in place where workers are allowed to “donate” their own vacation hours for people who are out with temporary disabilities. However, childbirth doesn’t qualify. So IME it’s the opposite of your claim that’s been true—“real” disabilities are considered worthy while moms get the fuzzy end of the lollipop.
Aw shit, I meant missbunny, not catsix. My bad.
At my former company, I was allowed 12 weeks (none of which were paid) for maternity leave. I could then take an additional 12 weeks under STD… wait, that’s Short Term Disability which, of course, would have been at least partially paid (I don’t remember if it was 100% or not). Unfortunately, I didn’t sign up for the STD benefits when I had the chance (well, really, if I were dismembered or something, I would probably just quit - I didn’t even think about pregnancy!) so I was left with no pay the whole time. It didn’t screw me or anything though because my income was mostly disposable and That Guy made enough to cover my midnight ice cream treats and such.
Before I went on leave though I had to be transfered because they were laying new carpet and the adhesive was bad for me and Alex. When I came back from leave they tried telling me I’d be forced to stay in that other department because of this piece of shit form I’d signed (which wasn’t a full transfer at all, just a “Rate 2” which enable the second department to pay me for my work rather than making my ‘home’ department pay me) and I couldn’t go back to my old job. Then, after I killed a few people and went back “home”, they’d switched my hours and my days off. So I quit. And now I stay at home all the time. YAY!
Heh, I had to cover my job and a coworker’s (when I was then the only one in a hectic medical office) when she had an unspecified medical condition that required hospitalization, but which we figured out was some kind of nervous breakdown. We couldn’t find out any information on what her condition was, how long she’d be out for, anything; the doctors couldn’t legally tell us anything. At least with pregnancy you can set some kind of estimated start and stop time, hopefully get in a temp to take some of the load off, etc.
Now I’m confused- which part do you stand by? It seems to me that the period of time a person is medically unable to work due to pregnancy or birth should be treated no differently than the period of time a person is unable to work due to any other non work related medical condition. Why should I not get disability while recovering from childbirth and get it while recovering from the leg I broke skiing? Why should I get it for abdominal surgery but not for a C-section?
Both my present employer and my last one have “child care leave”- it’s available to both mothers and fathers and for adoptions and you get paid only for the leave time you’ve earned. You want to take six months off- fine. You’ve only got two weeks vacation- that’s all you get paid for. I’ve never known anyone whose job provided a paid maternity leave beyond disability benefits and/or vacation time.
I resent that I am always expected to stay late, cover for someone, or take up the slack for a person who is out on maternity leave for weeks or months at a time. This is not something I’m paid extra to do, and it’s not part of the job description I signed when I started working for my employer. It’s what they expect of me because, as they’ve told me the others have kids to take care of, and I don’t.
I resent the idea that I have less of a claim to my scheduled off-time because someone who has kids or is having them isn’t at work when they are scheduled to be there. I resent that it’s automatically assumed I can work late to make up for the fact that $coworker was not at work from noon to four because she (or he, but usually she) wanted to go to some function at $kid’s school.
No, actually it’s not true. She’s not doing that out of some duty to ‘keep our society going’. She’s doing it because she wanted a child, because a child would make her happy, because she’s fulfilling her own personal ambition. This is not the Handmaid’s Tale.
The longer the maternity leave, especially if it’s fully paid time off, the less likely I am to accept a position with a company because I know full well that I’m going to be one of those ‘well you don’t have kids, so you can stay late today’ workers. It’s a part of the reason I’m looking for other employment now.
Where I work, we get three sick days a year. I’ve been at my present job for three years, and taken three days off due to illness. There have been days that I would’ve liked to take a sick day, but didn’t because it would saddle someone else with having to stay late to get something important done on time. On those days, I go (went) to work like normal. I don’t expect anyone else to put themselves out, to work overtime without pay, or to do my job for me when I’m sick, which is a condition I obviously can’t choose to have. Maybe that’s why I’m so flabbergasted that people who choose to have a kid expect everyone else to put themselves out to take up the slack for that choice.
Yeah, I adapt for shit like that by making sure my work is done before I ‘leave early for a dentist appointment’ so that nobody else is expected to give up their off time without compensation to cover for me. I can’t follow the logic that says I’m entitled to make a choice to take time off from work which results in someone else working fifty hours a week instead of forty.
Wow, catsix. Maybe you should just find a job where you’re not expected to help pick up the slack.
Like it or not, most women have kids. If you so dislike helping your co-workers when they go out on maternity leave, perhaps you’d rather pick up the slack by training new employees every time someone pops pregnant? Do you prefer that every woman be SAHM? Maybe forced sterilization?
I can’t decide if you are bitter, twisted, or both.
Well then your employers are taking advantage of you, and you are letting them.
Sorry, but it is true. Here’s an experiment–everyone will stop having babies for the next–oh, say 75 years. Then we can look around and see how well our society is doing. Just because someone derives personal satisfaction from a behavior does not make it insignificant.
qquote] I’ve been at my present job for three years, and taken three days off due to illness. There have been days that I would’ve liked to take a sick day, but didn’t because it would saddle someone else with having to stay late to get something important done on time.
[/quote]
So because you *choose * not to take advantage of the health leave offered by your company, everyone else should follow suit? Good luck with that crusade.
I’m with chique here–what would be your solution to maternity leave? Should mothers not work? Should employers order women who just had C-sections come back to their desks? Should babies be given over to the government to raise so your co-workers aren’t saddled with pesky obligations like caring for sick children or attending important school functions?
Seriously, inquiring minds want to know.
Well bugger all. If a mod would kindly fix my coding from hell I’d be much obliged.
[sub]How embarassing.[/sub]
Thank all that is holy. Maybe when you get a job in a childless office, you’ll stop coming into threads about maternity leave and whining about all of the extra work you have to do every time some chick in your office gets knocked up for what are obviously purely selfish reasons. Which seems to be every single one of them, since you persist in this attitude:
And you know what? I strongly suspect that the people who are 20-40 now and bitching about people who DARE to HAVE CHILDREN which INCONVENIENCE their co-workers are going to be the same people who, 20 years from now, are bitching about how disrespectful kids are, how it seems like they were raised by wild dogs, and how the family is falling apart. These are the same piece of shit wastes of skin who are going to be healing you, building your house, serving your food, and designing your car 20 years from now. Of course, none of that matters because you can’t stand the thought of their parents getting more perks than you.
I can’t understand - at all - how people can FAIL to see the difference between breaking a leg and giving birth. This inability to see the difference between a HEADCOLD and a NEW HUMAN BEING staggers me.
QUICKLY! Someone get me the appropriate paperwork to submit catsix for sainthood.
As someone who has caught illnesses from martyrs like you who decided to drag their fucking cross to work…take the fucking day off.
I’m always amazed at the resentment displayed by some towards women with children who work in these sort of threads.
I spent the best part of 12 years being one of the only females without off-spring in small to mid size offices and I honestly never felt the my fellow employees were egregiously abusing the fact that they had children just to take advantage of me.
Yes, we as a group often accommodated not only maternity leaves we also pulled together so that mothers could attend school functions on occasions or take time off when their kids were sick.
Bid damn deal.
My co-workers all pitched in my mother was dying of cancer (6 weeks off) or when I had to met the vet at the barn or when I need a week to place my batty father in yet another personal care home.
I always figured that we all had lives outside of the office -not just the mommies and, by being mutually supportive, we could manage to balance the two more effectively.
I did a ten week stint for a girl who left work to student teach and there was her job, waitin’ for her when she got back. Does this garner the same bitterness?
I used to work in a company filled with single women without children. Two I spent endless time covering for due to hangovers. One had near constant boyfriend problems that ended up costing me oodles of my time. One just slacked and I picked it up. Slackers at work are slackers. If they have the kid excuse, that’s a great one. If they don’t have the kid excuse, it will be endless long lunches to run errands, slipping out early Friday afternoon, or just chatting on the phone with friends.
Kids do NOT turn you into a slacker. When my kids are ill, I rotate responsiblities with my husband and my mother. I’m out more often than people with stay at home spouses, but not as often as the guy who has six weeks of vacation because he’s been with the company that long! Or the guy gone every Tuesday afternoon from April to September for golf league (he makes up his time by skipping lunch OCCATIONALLY).
You know what I learned after that. I do MY job. I help out to the point I am being helped out. I’m eager to say the first time “Hey, I can take your Saturday afternoon so you can go to the little league game.” But if the favor is not returned when I need it, the coworker (childfree or childfilled) will not find me so eager. It isn’t that I keep a tally book, but I know who has gone out of their way for me and return the favor. Oh, and when I pick up the slack, I’m not afraid to toot my own horn - telling my boss “I’m going to be a little late with X, Kim’s been out ill all week and I’ve been picking up a lot of her work.”
If you’re always staying late to cover for maternity leave, if you’re always increasing your weekly hours by 25% to make up for these leave policies, then I’m with belladonna. Your employer is taking advantage of you. And I think that sucks, but it’s sounds as though it has been going on for ages and is utterly egregious. A 25% increase in your hours? Just for people on maternity leave? At some point, I stop feeling outraged for you and wonder why the fuck you are still working there. Why do you continue to let them? And why do you blame the other employees? How many of you are there, submitting yourself week after week after week to extra hours with no pay? Never getting sick leave? Never taking a single fucking dentist appointment without completely clearing ever little assignment off your desk?
Get yourself another job. or see a lawyer about whether or not they are violating your contract by forcing you to always stay late.
And the last time one of the ‘mommies’ was willing to stay late was apparently before I started working there, because it’s never happened as long as I’ve been at work.
I have one co-worker who takes three months off every summer to be with her kids, thereby leaving a metric fuckton of work for myself and others, and who finds it absolutely shocking that I’m actually going to take one week of the two vacation weeks I’ve accumulated at the end of June because she was counting on me to handle something she’s supposed to do during that time.
You all can call me sick or twisted or what the fuck ever you want, but I don’t think there’s anything evil about not wanting to spend my scheduled time off, unpaid, in the office so that somebody else can go to their kid’s baseball game. Especially when those people do this at least once a week and have absolutely no care or concept of who is being put out to fill their slack.
People have kids because they want kids, not because they are martyrs who shoulder the duty of prepetuating the species, so don’t give me that bullshit.
I know it’s an unpopular position, but I agree with you missbunny. My coworker just announced that she is pregnant, and it’s already begun. She telecommutes half the week and comes into the office 2 or 3 days a week. Already she has stopped coming in alltogether, and she is only 3 months pregnant! This has already become inconvenient for us. I can’t imagine what it is going to be like after she has the baby.
Same with people with children. Another coworker takes off all sorts of time for her sick kids, or they have the day off school so she has to be home, etc., and this is never questioned. But god forbid if I have to go to a doctor’s appointment or need a day off, it’s more scruitinized. It is plainly unfair. My boss is the same to. She never comes into the office because she is supposedly teleworking from home, because she has three young kids. In the meantime, I am here running the whole show, but not getting a penny extra for picking up so much slack.
I agree with you too, catsix. And boy am I brave for doing so, considering the severe criticism you are getting. I think people with this position are being unfairly bashed. Maybe it’s a defensive position because the critics are mothers or wannnabe mothers. I want to be a mother someday too, but it is a choice, not a skiing accident or the flu. When I decide it is time to have kids, I will be responsible for it on my own, and not expect my company and coworkers to be inconvenienced for my personal life decision. I really don’t see why so many here find missbunny’s and catsix’s positions so offensive. We’re not trying to be mean or hateful, we just feel we are being unfairly put upon in some instances, and are trying to express our frustration. Just as Velma was venting frustration that she was not told upfront the truth about her leave.
To borrow a quote from jarbabyj: “QUICKLY! Someone get me the appropriate paperwork to submit jlzania for sainthood.”
My point is, it goes both ways!
I think we do see the difference: the former is an accident, an unfortunate circumstance. The latter is a voluntary choice. That is a very big difference. It’s easier to accomodate if someone is out because they are sick…it’s harder to take if you’re being worked twice as hard because of your coworker’s personal life choice.