It’s marvelous that you’ve decided to stand up for yourself but perhaps you should have set limits before you became so angry about the whole issue.
I would have resented the hell out of my co-workers had they had the temerity to use that as an excuse. However, I always made it perfectly clear that my life was just as important to me as their’s was.
That was never negotiable.
Once again, and I’m not trying to be nasty but I see this as more of a problem with your inability to establish boundaries and stand up for yourself.
So would I have been an equal jerk for leaving some of my work undone for that day because I needed to drive my father to a doctor’s appointment?
How about the time my horse got the snot kicked out of her and I needed to rush off to met the vet?
Life intervenes with the best laid plans.
And yes, your co-workers are taking advantage of you with the apparent consent of your boss but how does that relate to Velma’s maternity leave?
Well, I agree that catsix is being taken advantage of. I would be upset if I were treated that way too, kids or not. I have no intention of being that way and I have yet to see anyone do it here. We do have people who are flaky and find reasons to come late and leave early but it has nothing to do with kids.
In my case, I knew that I didn’t want to continue working full time when I had a baby. I told my boss up front and suggested making my position a job share. Since this meant my company can pay the new person less than what I am making and save more money by dropping my benefits, it’s win/win for us and they agreed. Plus now someone who needs a job can get one. If they had said no, you have to work full time or nothing, I probably would quit.
I didn’t expect 12 weeks maternity leave when I started here. I wasn’t really thinking about children at all at the time and I sure wasn’t going to turn down a decent job because of the maternity leave. At the time I wasn’t sure I ever wanted kids. I was never one of those people who always knew I wanted children. Yet somehow I was able to understand why other people might, and it didn’t ever bother me when someone went on maternity leave. Actually, the times when someone did have to leave to pick up a sick child or coach a little league game my feelings were ‘better them than me.’ There have been other cases where people were gone, specifically a woman whose son got cancer, and she got many more weeks off (I think over 6 months total) and much more than 4 weeks of that was paid. I am glad she got it. If I had a problem with my workload I would take it up with my boss, not the person who used to do it.
I know 6 weeks is the norm, sometimes paid and sometimes not. That is why I was suprised and pleased when I asked and was told I could get 10 weeks with partial pay. I feel that once my employer tells me that is their policy then I have a reasonable expectation that they follow through on it. We are not going to go bankrupt over 6 weeks, but it is difficult to cover 6 weeks pay, even at 60%, at only about 10-12 weeks notice. I know it is my choice to have a child and my responsibility to pay for it and we are going to.
Now then. I will be thinking of all of you after I have my baby and I am lounging around the house, sipping margaritas as my precious, perfect bundle sleeps peacefully. Watch me laugh all the way to the hospital when I am in labor as I think about the suckers who are stuck at work that day. Come on everyone, become parents for the benefits. You know you want to. We can all go to Tahiti with the tax money we will save.
Sigh. I am not complaining about maternity packages, so please understand that. I am all for them. I plan on havings kids, and I surely hope my company has one. Also, this may be a parenting issue, but it becomes a non-parent issue when it affects non-parents, which it clearly does as illustrated by scenarios presented in this thread.
I totally agree, Daisy Mae. We are not being jerks. The critics are jumping all over us, and I don’t understand why. We are not criticising you or complaining about you. I am sure you have never acted in any of the annoying ways which were related by catsix and others. We’re criticising people that that and bad employers, and unfair policies. It is very unfair when you twist my position and try to say that I am against maternity packages. I never ever said any such thing.
If I have a heart attack or break my leg or have to have abdominal surgery, that’s not voluntary. If a couple decides to have a baby they should plan properly and be ready financially and otherwise and not put the burden on others.
I don’t understand how one would do this in practice, however. Read one way, I could take this to mean that when I had a baby, I should have told my employer “please don’t pay me–I know it’s your policy to do so, but I’ve planned financially and I don’t want to be a burden.” There is no way my employer would have complied. I am not sure they could have, legally. I am sure General Counsel would have had a conniption over it. Or does this mean I should not have had a baby at all, knowing my employer’s policy would burden others? Or should I have ignored medical advice and returned to work sooner? I’m not just asking cranky questions; I’m trying to feel my way around your meaning because I’m not sure what you meant.
Let me pose more questions that are relevant to me: Like some women end up with, I had a c-section which extended my leave by two weeks. The c-section wasn’t really voluntary. Do you think this changes the situation at all? I chose voluntarily to get pregnant (that was unchanged) but my recovery time changed involuntarily. In that situation, would your statement mean that I should get 8 weeks paid leave, or 2 weeks? What if my c-section wasn’t entirely involuntarily (I could have gone vaginally but chose to have the surgery). Should that change the leave?
And that’s why I said that maybe a new thread was in order. Or maybe catsix should either change her tactics, or start a new thread. “My employer sucks too, for this reason?” Sure, pretty much on-topic. “I’m tired of coworker-parents being assholes to me?” NEW. FUCKING. THREAD.
I’m sorry if I came off as overly-harsh to you; it just seemed like it was more of the same “parents are evil and fuck work up for non-parents” bullshit.
As a note: I’ve been a housewife since 1995; my hubman got to take off four whole days after each birth.
I’m also wondering if catsix is as incensed and infuriated by the credit parents get on their taxes…just for having children.
Just one more quick point about the fact that people ‘choose’ to have kids.
This may be true in theory but in practice:
(a) It is a perfectly natural thing for a woman to feel that she wold like to have a child. I’m NOT saying anything about that those who don’t want to have kids - that’s natural too for them, but it is an instinct in the majority of women so maybe you could say it’s not really a choice as such
(b) Accidents can happen and some people don’t believe in abortion etc. and for them they have no ‘choice’ but to go through with the pregnancy or a woman might not have initially planned on having kids, became pregnant by accident but then changed her mind and felt she really wanted to keep her baby. This doesn’t leave her much time for planning how she will cope financially after she has the baby.
In an ideal world and for a lot of lucky couples having children is a choice and one that enriches their lives. For others however kids can pop up with less notice and planning and they can also cause difficulties in their lives. They can get sick (very sick), they can get in trouble in school or with the law, they can have disabilities which require more care than normal kids, just like any other members of someone’s family. The fact is that the vast majority of people don’t live a vacuum. They have families and personal lives and I say any employer who can’t recognise this would be better off hiring a bunch of robots (and they’d probably prefer to as well if they could get away with it). If society becomes too individualistic you’ll have anarchy on your hands. Any civilised community realises the importance of mutual support amongst its members.
Just interested - would you then support disability for someone with an unplanned pregnancy? How about to recover after an abortion or miscarriage? Or someone who had a child by rape? Is it only the ‘planned’ aspect that bothers you?
I agree that my child is my financial burden. However, I’m not going to go to my employer and say, don’t give me that money, I don’t need it. While you’re at it, don’t pay me for my vacation either. Why should you pay me for hours not worked? I chose to go to Florida voluntarily.
On preview. ** CrankyAsAnOldMan** is pretty much summarizing my feelings in this thread. And doing it faster, too.
In the interest of clarity, I should add that I know women don’t usually get disability after an abortion or miscarriage. Maybe another example would be better, where someone got ill or injured as a direct result of their choices.
Also, in my experience (with companies not compiled of jerks, and I’ve seen a lot as a temp), women who plan on maternity leave give their management at least four months of notice.
FOUR MONTHS…if your superiors can’t get their shit together and hire a temp or plan for adequate distribution of work, they need someone else to take over the business.
The way some of you are talking, women come in and say “havin’ a baby, I’ll be gone friday!”
I can’t speak for catsix, but i’m incensed by it. Why shoud parents get tax credits just because they have children?
Now, before all the parents reading this thread jump down my throat - the reason I’m incensed by it is because those stupid tax credits are a dodge. Parents don’t deserve a tax break because they have children - they deserve a tax break beacuse they have dependents. Why should some people, whose dependents just happen to be minors, get a special tax break that other people whose dependents happen to be adults don’t get? Why is taking care of a child more important than taking care of a disabled adult?
We should junk the stupid “child tax credits” and instead raise the dependent deduction to something reasonable. Parents would still get their break - but so would the other folks doing the difficult (but absolutely necessary) job of caring for a dependent human being. (And the standard deduction should be raised, too, while we’re at it - does anyone think $4000 is a reasonable minimum income to live off of? That’s what the standard deduction is supposed to be, after all - the minimum amount of money required to live, which thus deserves not to be taxed.)
Too often we as a society let politicians get away with these “it’s for the CHILDREN!!!” special policies rather than demanding programs that benefit everyone. Too often, we speak as though children are the only people who have needs. Maybe it’s time we start reminding politicians and big business that people don’t simply become robots once they hit the magic age of 18, and start demanding better for ourselves.
Largely yes-your child is your financial responsibilty.
However, my property taxes help fund the local schools despite the fact that I personally will never directly benefit, as I will never have a child in the school system.
Is this unfair?
Not in my book because I want the generations that follow me to be educated participants in our society.
It’s a price I’m willing to pay.
I also recognize that I will never benefit from any employer’s maternity leave benefits but that’s ok too as I also recognize the importance of stable families in our society.
Everything doesn’t boil whether or not something directly benefits me,me,me.
THANK YOU. I wasn’t able to put my finger on what was bothering me so much about some of this, and that was it.
Isn’t there some kind of tax break for people who are taking care of dependent family members over the age of 18? I don’t know, since I’ve never had to look for it (thank all that’s holy) but it doesn’t make sense, with the millions of other possible deductions out there, for there to NOT be a break for adult dependents.
But that’s a direct benefit. It means that the people who are practicing law in 20 years, or wiring your new house in 10 years, or preparing your food, or doing your quadruple-bypass…will have the education necessary to do so.
By direct benefit, I meant that I will never have a child in the system that I would be forced to pay to educate were public schools not free.
However, I did qualify my statement by adding:
If a couple is having sex, the possibility of getting pregnant exists, not matter the procautions. Said couple should be ready for any “surprises”.
No no no. I think if your employeer pays you while you’re out, that’s super duper. Just like any other perk, Fridays off, 4 weeks vacation, maternity pay, whatever. If that’s the kind of setup a person can get, I’m all for it.
Nope, the leave should take as long as you, your doctor or your family sees fit.
Bottom line, regardless of the circumstances, no one should expect to get paid for not working. It doesn’t make sense. Like I said above, if the contract you have with your employer provides you pay while you’re not working for any reason, good for you.
See above. If it’s worked out in your contract, super. Don’t expect more.
Well, like I said, my problem was that there was no contract. I didn’t *expect * anything until my boss told me what the policy was - this was part of a larger talk we had about when I was due, adjusting the position to a job share, etc. He said he had talked to HR and the president and gotten approval - I took that to mean about everything, but it is possible he only meant about the job share part. If so, he did not make that clear - he just said “I talked to HR and this is what they told me.” That is when I started expecting what he told me, and since 3 months had gone by until I heard anything different (and since the first time I had asked HR specifically what the policy was) I wasn’t expecting anything to change now.
I don’t expect benefits one way or the other when I start a job, but I think it’s in everyone’s best interest in the long run for good benefits packages in general. I’m all in favor for more flex time, more vacation, maternity leave, paternity leave, 401k / retirement plans, all of it. I think giving employees more choices and perks makes them more loyal, happy, and productive. I understand not all companies can afford to provide all this, but in general I think we’d all be better off if it was the norm.
Re: the rape scenario. How would my employer ever know if I conceived because of rape? Surely they should not be allowed to ask how it happened to decide what kind of leave I qualified for.
Me: I’m pregnant, what kind of leave is offered?
HR: Well that depends, how did you get pregnant?
Me: :eek: