Well, I could have shown him my passport in an instant, had he asked for it. However, my passport says nothing about my driving skills: my driver’s license does. I realise a CHiP can’t be expected to know all driver’s licenses in the world by heart, but surely an EU standard issue license shouldn’t be all that rare in a tourist intensive state like CA?
But yeah, my driver’s license would only be valid as a means of ID in the Netherlands. Same thing for Americans coming over here, of course: they’d need a passport for ID purposes.
lightingtool, I find you story interesting, you seem to think it’s okay to act agressively towards law enforcement. I’m suprised you didn’t get beat down moreover here in NYC a fellow by the name of Amadou Diallo got shot 41 times for going for his wallet, but he was black man and the officers where white.
According to the California DMV’s website, your Dutch driver’s license is perfectly valid, Coldie. It’s also quite explicit that the IDL is not necessary.
Of course, they cannot legislate away the problem that a license in a language that an officer doesn’t read is nearly useless. But it seems that they’ve tried.
Actually, I was quite baffled when I realised my driver’s license didn’t have a word of English on it, apart from the “Driver’s License” title on the front. All the rest is in Dutch, and Dutch only. I never realised this until the cop asked me for my license, of course.
But it’s good to know that my gut feeling was right: it is a valid license in CA. God knows it cost a shitload more than a CA license, so it’d better be valid.
No, no no no no no no no no no no. I do not think it’s ok to act agressively at all. That’s kind of my point. The officer was acting agressively toward me, and I unfortunately got caught up in it and responded in the same fashion. The situation got out of hand and peaked with the officer pointing a gun at my head. I guess one of my questions is are we supposed to be completely submissive around cops? Treat them as if they are unstable people who will resort to violence at the drop of a hat? Given my experience this morning, I guess the answer is yes. I should have sat there, listened to the officer’s ranting, said “yes sir” and “no sir” a lot, and gone to work when he was done. (Ok, I shouldn’t have flipped him off to begin with, I know) Hopefully there won’t be a next time, but if there is, that’s what I’ll do. It just upsets me that this man, IMO, used his job as an excuse to drive unsafely, be an ass, and expected not to get called on it. He upset me, and if I were a better person, I would have not tried to argue the point while I was so worked up. My past experiences with the CHP have all been very pleasant, and as I’ve said before, I respect the work they do and the risks they take. I also understand that they have very violent jobs, and many times they do have to resort to violence very quickly to protect themselves. I just happened to encounter a bad apple this morning who initiated the conversation aggressively. Thanks for the input.
I hope by “act accordingly” you mean the officer is justified in yelling back and that you do not mean that yelling at a cop justifies an act of violence against the person yelling.
Simply raising one’s voice does not give rise to an imminent threat of physical harm. If it did, everyone could claim self-defense in every heated discussion and engage in violence just because tempers rise.
A rule that gives a cop, or anyone, justification for violence just because someone raised a voice is bad policy.
I’m pretty sure that the carpool lane isn’t restricted for the police, no matter how many or few occupants in the police vehicle. Anyone know the straight dope on that?
I’d be willing to wager a substantial sum that HOV lanes are available to law enforcement officers at all times, regardless of vehicle occupancy.
I did some research today (i.e., talked to a cop). It is completely legal to flip off a policeman. You cannot hurt an officer’s feelings. They are there to enforce the written code and not respond to insults directed at their own personality.
That having been said, the officer then proceeded to mention how the California vehicle code has over 500 pages of regulations. Over 100 of these pages are devoted to infractions represented by the specific condition of the vehicle itself.
[Chief Wiggum]
Yup! One tail light is slightly larger than the other!
[/Chief Wiggum]
He went on to say that even a car which is only one or two years old will most likely violate some aspect of the vehicle code.
Flipping off an officer is a splendid way to find out exactly which niggling little bit of the vehicle code you are violating. lightingtool, as I recommended, you should have recorded the officer’s car number, the time and the location. Reporting this would have gone a lot farther towards making the officer being held to accounts. I completely understand your frustration at being cut off, especially by a cop. However, flipping off a cop is about as stupid as passing a cop who is in the fast lane.
Furthermore, directing any hostility at a cop justifies them putting you into restraints so that they may run an unfettered background check upon you. Yes, they may escalate a situation if you are escalating it with your own behavior.
The officer has to:
[ul]
[li]Drive the car[/li][li]observe traffic for violators[/li][li]eyeball plates for expired tags[/li][li]listen to radio for calls (slightly harder than easy listening)[/li][li]answer said radio calls[/li][li]type into the computer license plates of cars that may be suspicious[/li][li]check hot sheet for stolen plate numbers[/li][li]move the Sam Browne around cause the damn gun is digging into their side[/li][/ul]
With all that on his plate he blew a lane change. I’ve blown a few of those in my time. I will bet a couple of bucks that you have blown one or two in your time also. You might want to cut the guy a little slack as he is out there to protect you and me, and as I pointed out above he has just a couple of more things on his plate.
Flipping him off while understandable is not a bright thing to do. This is referred to as contempt of cop. In the old days CoC was worth a good thumping. We live in a kinder and gentler world now, so all you get is a good yelling. Yelling back does not defuse the confrontation, rather it escalates it. (as you found out) Reaching where the officer can’t see is a guaranteed ticket to stare down the sewer pipe of the officer weapon. This applies to any quick movement in any traffic stop, and the more confrontational the stop is the faster the gun will come out.
Bottom line Dude you fucked up. If the cop had not been as well trained as the CHP is you might be in the morgue now.
Back in ’77 I almost ran over an LAPD officer. Did I get thumped? No. Did I get yelled at? No. Why? Because I kept my head about what happened, and did not lose my cool.
I was leaving my office at 9AM to get the mail from the post office. I was speeding down the alley behind my office (say 35 in a 15 zone). Suddenly from between two houses comes a cop on foot running. I lock up the brakes, and he does the same. We missed by about 6 inches. No bullshit his upper body was over the top of my front fender and hood. I motion for him to continue. He takes off after the bad guy he was chasing. On the way back to the office I saw that the LAPD had the bad guy in custody. I drove up and apologized for the near miss. The officer then apologized to me for running in front of me; he told me he thought I was his back up. We shook hands and parted friends. Compare that to your experience.
Coldie,
In my experience a foreign derver’s license is an excellent way to not to get tickets. The CHP will almost always give you a warning than to hassle with writting a cite on a foreign lic. (WAG I think it gives the state computer the hicups or something)
Astro, that links seems to suggest they’re the same: “The IDP [International Driver Permit] is also called an International Driver License, International License, etc.”. Or at the very least, the terms IDP and IDL are used interchangeably, and confusingly.
Anyway, as the link also says: “California does recognize a valid driver license that is issued by a foreign jurisdiction (country, state, territory) of which the license holder is a resident”, so in other words, I was right and the cop was wrong. Although I can understand the confusion, what with my license not being in English and all.
[hijack]
My brother-in-law is English and was on business in the south here in the US (Georgia, maybe). He was going about 90 in a 55 zone and got pulled over. He put on the strongest accent he could and handed over his English license. Exchange went something like this:
Cop: “Driver’s license please.”
BIL pulls out this large, paper document.
Cop: “What the heck is this?”
BIL: “That’s my driver’s license, sir.”
Cop: “Where you from?”
BIL: “England”
Cop: “Wait here. I’ll be right back.” He went to the car and made a radio call.
Cop: “Ok, here in America, we drive in miles per hour where you alls drive in kilometers per hour. So slow down and have a good day. Goodbye.”
BIL: “Ah, thank you officer. I understand.”
Note: My brother-in-law was living in New York for the past few years (and dating my sister at the time).
Not only do I think it’s ok to flip off a cop in that situation, I think it would be perfectly ok to beat his ass to a pulp. Cops should NOT be able to treat people like that. They should NOT be able to selectively enforce the law, depending on your attitude. They should NOT be able to violate traffic laws unless it is a real emergency. I absolutely seethe at the prospect of shoesize IQ goon squads authority fetishes going around intimidating the citizens who pay their salary.
Had a cop rack a shotgun at my head when I was 15 for being a stupid teenager. Never happend again. You had a life lesson that would be well to remember.
I would like to thank everyone for their input. I do agree that I handled myself poorly, as did the officer. Who knew I would learn so much from a Pit Thread. Spooje and [bGuinastasia**, I’m not sure why you folks think I’m lying/made this whole thing up. All I can say is I retold the story here as it happened. I’m sure the officer’s story would be a bit different from mine, but this is from my point of view. Thanks
My husband’s cousin had a slightly similar occasion here in town about 5-7 years ago.
Steve’s driving home, pretty late - but sober 'cause he was only 20 (and a very good boy). He’s being a concientious (sp?) driver, primarily because he knows there’s a bunch of drunken idiots out. While driving through an intersecion, out of nowhere, a cop - NO lights, NO sirens - T-bones the hell out of him (on the passenger side) at about 45 mph. The first cop to arrive on the scene (to take the accident report), REACHED INTO THE WRECKED COP CAR AND FLIPPED ON THE LIGHTS.
NO shit!!
This and all of the other pompous crap I’ve seen cops pull makes me FURIOUS. My personal favorite :mad: is to see them cruising down the road and, as they approach a red light, they flip on their lights and just drive through - and turn them off on the other side of the intersection!!!
One night, I came home in a bad mood from dealing with my dad to find a cop car PARKED ACROSS MY DRIVEWAY!!! There was 50 feet of clear space on the OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET!!! And when I called to report it, the “computer system” that “keeps track of police license plates was DOWN”!!!
Made me wanna scream!!!
</personal cop rant>
But everytime I’ve been pulled over, I’ve been oh-so-polite!!
