The other day, I was trying to explain what the term “fundie” meant to a friend of mine who’s somewhat familiar with the SDMB (he reads it when I read it at his place).
Me: It means fundamentalist Christian, like someone who’s really into their religion and it runs their life, they believe every word of the Bible is the literal truth, they think all our laws should be based on religion.
Him: You mean Christians?
Me: Not just any Christians… people like Pat Buchanan, Jerry Falwell, Jesse Helms. People who don’t believe in science, they believe in Adam & Eve and all that.
Him: Most Christians believe in Adam & Eve.
and so on. I was unable to convey the difference between “Christian” and “fundamentalist”.
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[li]How can I explain this better?[/li][li]Since his family is Christian, might his association of all these traits with Christians in general mean that he’s… one of them?[/li][/list=1]
I’m going with the theory that he’s one of them. Run. Run quickly! Just kidding.
Actually, ask your friend if he believes that there are any “stories” in the Bible. You know, things that didn’t really happen the way they were written but that they represent something else. If he says there aren’t–suspicion confirmed.
newbie alert
I see how this could be a problem. If it helps, my personal perception of the most critical facet of fundamentalism hinges on their beliefs not only in the literal interpretation of the Bible but their adamant reliance on conversion–through the Inquisition if necessary–and their unbridled and theologically inconsistent near-hatred for those outside their own religion and, frequently, demographic; the “greatest commandment” of fundamentalism is not “love your neighbor as yourself” as in Matthew 22:39, but “pick fights with people unlike yourself.”
My, that was a long (but I’m pretty sure grammatically correct) sentence.
Not all Christians are against the seperation of church and state, nor do all Christians disbelieve in science, nor do all Christians literally believe in Adam and Eve; if your friend applies these traits to all Christians, and considers himself a Christian, then he applies these traits to himself.
Fear not, my friend, for there is yet hope. Your friend can be saved from his . . . savedness, provided he can think.
In terms of explaining, I would tell him that fundamentalists are easily identified by their obsession with world domination. Saying that all the things that they think are wrong ought to be illegal and such. If he seems to think that this is the case–and I’m sorry if he does–suggest to him that people of other religions may well think it’s wrong to be Christian, and ask him if it would be right for them to make Christianity illegal. Likewise prayer in school.
I propose a simple litmus test – ask him what he considers the age of the earth and the universe to be. If he replies with any number less than 100,000 years, then in all likelihood you are dealing with a fundamentalist. If so, I recommend you point him to the SDMB creation/evolution debates. Who knows, maybe he can be encouraged to think critically.
Explain to your friend that there are many different kinds of Christians. Hell, there are probably a hundred different denominations of Baptists alone. And, this is important, the VAST majority of them do NOT believe in the literal interpretation of the bible. Fundamentalist Christians are a very small minority of Christians, especially worldwide. This includes every member of the largest Christian Denomination, Roman Catholics.
If your friend believes that Catholics are not Christians, then he may be beyond hope.
People do tend to walk around the world with blinders on. They grow up with certain kinds of people and extrapolate what they observe to larger groups. “Well, I’m a Christian and I hate homosexuals, therefore all Christians hate homosexuals and if you don’t hate homosexuals then you are not a Christian.” That kind of thing.
I remember getting ready to get my first communion and wondering why my friend didn’t have to. At 7 years of age, this was a great revelation that everybody is not Catholic.
Well, that is how I define a fundie – someone who thinks they are saved. The Catholic Church calls such a sin presumption. Fundies pervert the justice and mercy of the (historic, apostolic, and traditional understanding of) God.
(If you think you are pissed, just think how He must feel! )
I realize that this is Great Debates, not General Questions, but I’m going to try to give a straight answer to Mr2001’s first question.
If you want some good hard information about Fundementalist Christianity, check out Ontario Consultants for Religious Tolerance, an indispensible mostly-unbiased resource on all things religious. (They refer to Fundementalists as “conservative Christians.”)
Fundementalists are part of a movement that emerged in the United States early in the 20th century. Their defining characteristic is that they are Biblical literalists. They believe the Bible to be inerrant. See How Christians Interpret the Bible.
I was going to suggest that your rolling eyes were not particularly helpful, Jersey Diamond, but then I realized that they might actually have some deep signifigance I’m missing.
So I’ll bite.
Jersey, what is the difference between fundamnetalists and other Christians?
I am guessing you would consider me a fundamentalist, right?
Well, if there is something wrong with that, please tell me what exactly that is. If I say something and have the Bible to back me up, what exactlty is wrong with that? You might say, ‘everyone has their own interpretation’, ok, fine, give me an example and let’s see how outragous one interpretation is compared to the other. My signature fit people who think other than what the Bible actually say, that’s why it’s in the Bible to begin with. Noe, I don’t know what you think a fundamentalist is, or even if you think I am one, but I do not hear what I want to hear, I hear what is commanded of me. If I choose to obey is totally up to me, but I’m not about to revise the word of God so it suits me better.
Of course, they may have differing views on what fundamentalism is.
Because ‘Conservative Christian’ could mean that. Or it could mean someone who doesn’t share their views. Or it could mean a priest concerned about ecological issues.
“Someone who’s really into religion and it runs their life” doesn’t really exemplefy a ‘Fundamentalist.’ Catholic priests, Baptist pastors, old lady Tipkin in apartment 403 who knits booties for cold kids because it’s a work she believes the Lord has given her–their ‘lives are run by their religion.’
For the believer in Christ, (hopefully), their religion is not merely a vocation–it’s a relationship with God. And I would assay a guess that it’s the same for followers of Allah, Vishnu, Shiva, Krishna or Buddha or people who buy the whole seasons of the X-Files on DVD.
ahem
(Ok, so I don’t have them yet, but when I can afford 'em…)
I believe in many fundamental truths contained within the Bible. I never stepped out and said I AM A FUNDAMENTALIST!!!
But I also believe there are areas to be taken metaphorically and symbolically as well as literally.
And to desire to base many of our laws on Christian principles is one thing.
To legislate morality is a completely different animal–and a nasty, ill-fed animal, lacking distemper shots and rife with parasites.
By ascribing the term ‘Fundie’ to hypocrites, which is what it sounds like you’ve done (no offense–I’m reading your reference to Buchanan et al) you might be painting an entire house because of one mark on the bathroom wall.
And as far as jmullaney’s
…those aren’t ‘fundies.’
Those are Protestants. A
nd anyone else who dare defy the sanctity of God’s chosen church in their rotten, carnal, blasphemic impudence.
Well, if you’re anything like most of the Fundamentalists I’ve run across, there is something wrong with the selective adherence to some scriptures as the divine, inerrant word of God, and the complete avoidance of others.
F’rinstance, a certain rather obnoxious subset of Fundies [TM] believes that God hates, actively hates, homosexual men. They even maintain a website to that effect. Their main argument for why God hates homosexual men is that Leviticus 20:13 prescribes the death penalty for male homosexual relations. These very same people also believe, however, that there is nothing wrong with eating ham or wearing wool-cotton blend clothing, even though the eating of pig flesh and the wearing of mixed fabrics are also forbidden by Leviticus.
Their excuse as to why the proscriptions against ham-eating and blended-fabric wearing do not apply is a passage in the New Testament, whose book-chapter-and-verse escapes me at the moment, which declared the old laws no longer to be important in determining salvation vs. damnation. Thus, Leviticus – and the whole of Mosaic Law, for that matter – no longer applies. So why do these people consider Leviticus 20:13 to be so vital? Because they want an excuse to hate homosexuals themselves. They pick and choose which scriptures to follow to the letter, and which to ignore.
And then they have the gall to call themselves Biblical Literalists.
My only problem is that people seem to take what is told to them by other people and ‘stick it’ to all people of that catagory. Please andros, tell me what a fundamentalist is, and ask me questions. Everyone here seems to think that if your a fundamentalist your not ‘enlightened’.<<That seems to be a pretty popular word used around here if you don’t agree with something that is popular. From what I gather, a fundamentalist is a Christian, so to ask what the difference is between the two should be worded differently. Now, there are many forms of what is considered christianity, for me to tell you the difference, I would need to know a particular denomination. I do not know everything about all religions, but I do know what I believe and why I believe it and to show you where I read it ( the Bible). I dont say that ‘I believe in the Bible BUT I think this could be done a little differently’ that’s what people tend to do, and that’s what my signature means. The Bible cannot be distorted unless someone is looking to do so. It’s pretty clear cut in many areas. When I started to read it, I thought to myself that this isn’t that hard to understand, and if I don’t understand some context of whatever, I will ask questions. So ask me why or what, and I will try to answer. Hopefully others out on straightdope land there will be able to answer things I still may not understand yet. I will never ever be close to even a little perfect and I don’t always do the right thing, but I know I need to try to do the right thing and the answers are in the Bible.
Not all sects of Christianity that have disagreements with the traditional teachings of Rome are “Protestant.” The chief heresy most Protestants share in common is the belief “that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which [they maintain is] insurmountable (Catechism, 406).” In other words, they don’t truly believe Jesus when he said, “with God all things are possible.” I suppose that the sin of presumption is only a few hops and skips from this position though.
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