Yea. And he was wering his Illuminati pin in public, risking exposure.
Are you asserting that Manuel Noriega was not involved in the above-mentioned endeavors, or that the CIA did not have any such endeavors in the 1980s?
Ahh, yes. Overthrowing tyranny.
That’s exactly how we helped Saddam’s Baath party come to power.
Then there was that little matter in 1953, when the United States helped engineer a coup against Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadeq in Iran (wasn’t he an elected leader?), all b/c he wanted to deprivatize the country’s oil.
Oh, and when our shah was overthrown and replaced with an Ayatollah, we gave Saddam chemical weapons to fight Iran, all while looking the other way.
Didn’t we later gave weapons to Iran to fight Iraq? Ah, yes. The Iran - Contra scandal. Oil prices are nice and cheap when both countries have to produce at capacity to fund their military.
Don’t forget our support for the coup in Venezuela 2 years ago against the democratically elected “tyrant” Chavez, who also was trying to de-privitize oil for the good of the general public. Another prime example of the US fighting tyranny and supporting democracy.
Tell your friend to get off his high-horse and face the facts. We don’t give a shit about what happens to the rest of the world, as long as it benefits us.
And no, oil can’t possibly be a factor here, right?
Bush gave a wonderful speech on Monday. I’d even be inclined to support him if half of what he said was actually true. Don’t be blinded by a government throwing out buzzwords like “freedom” and “democracy.” Such rhetoric only shields the real reasons for this effort from the eyes of the general public.
The government, no - and that was still as much as most of Europe was doing about it, btw. Mark that up to whatever standards of morality and practicality you care to judge by.
The Lincoln Brigade, though, did go to Spain and did fight for the Loyalist side, about as well as a bunch of untrained folksingers can fight, that is. Back home, they were roundly dismissed as naive and even unpatriotic, as is much of the anti-war movement today. There were other brigades from other countries as well, but the Americans wrote the best songs about it.
I posted the link to this, hoping he would respond personally. He’s not going to, but he did write to me.
In addition to the other things he said, he is of the belief (as am I) that the the US does have a responsibility towards fighting tyranny and oppresion wherever it rears it’s head. The fact that our gov’t seems to have forgotten that is a sad fact of life.
The thing that always floors me is why folks seem to think that it’s the “duty” of the US to undertake any sort of dirty work with no possible benefit. I didn’t see Latvia trying to feed the starving in Somalia, or Bali trying to liberate Kuwait.
Meh. I’m tired of trying to justify when the US does the right thing. There’s always someone to whine that we’re only doing it for personal gain (just like every other government in history) or that we’re doing this for some shady oil deal or to benefit the pockets of big business. The fact that the Iraqi people are going to benefit in the long term has apparently no bearing on any of this…
Hindsight is 20-fucking-20, Coldy. Maybe, if the US created the monster, we should also be allowed to destroy him, hmm?
“The thing that always floors me is why folks seem to think that it’s the “duty” of the US to undertake any sort of dirty work with no possible benefit. I didn’t see Latvia trying to feed the starving in Somalia, or Bali trying to liberate Kuwait.”
True. Although Bali is an island, part of Indonesia.
But Latvia doesn’t have a history of failed regime changes when it tried to mold a foreign nation to their liking. In fact, I don’t think Latvia ever attacked anyone. The criticism was aimed at your remark that the US has a moral duty to overthrow tyrants. My notion was, that it’s pretty damn convenient that the tyrants they DO overthrow (or replace with another potential tyrant, as the case often was) happen to be those whom can assure the US of some financial or political gain. Hence, the claim the the US intervenes out of morality loses credibility.
SPOOFE, of course hindsight is 20/20. And yeah, perhaps the US has some sort of “right” to correct the problem that is Hussein. The point is that many other nations get a little nervous these days when the US uses terms like “regime change”, as it doesn’t have a great track record with those. Anyway, I commented on Tristan’s assertion that US assistance to SH 20 years ago has no bearing on what happens today, which is obviously bollocks, regardless of what side of the debate one is on.
Well, in the 19 teens, Japan assisted Allied forces against Germany in WWI. 20 years later, the situation had changed.
In the 1940’s, the US gave financial and material assistance to the USSR. Less than 20 years later, the situation had changed.
But those situation are totally different, I’m sure. I’ll just sit here and quietly wait for you to tell me why.
Tristan, I am like your friend in that I don’t like seeing “Peace” stickers on gas-guzzlers. But it doesn’t leave me as pissed as seeing a war-supporter driving a big vechicle. What kind of car does your friend drive?