Well, I’m currently going to school as a Communication Arts major/Graphic Arts but thinking about going into Web development and design. Problem is, the main school system here where I live (HI) doesn’t really offer any programs for that kind of degree or certification. There is a business school that does, but it’s way to expensive for me.
For the dopers out there in this field- Should I just get my degree in Graphic Arts and learn the web stuff(html, dreamweaver, flash, etc.) myself and just take the 1-3 day seminars on programming that the local univeristy offers? (Is it even worth it?) Or- should I just really try to scrape up enough money to go to the business school (which is ridiculously expensive).
I really need some advice. 
Hmm… just realized that maybe this isn’t IMHO stuff but rather MPSIMS. Ack! Sorry Mods! If you can move it it’ll be greatly appreciated.
IANAWeb designer (but I pretend to be one every now and then).
What are the prospects for a talented young web designer these days? That’s really what your choice depends on.
I could be wrong, but it seems the job market in that field is pretty much dried up about now. If this is the case, is it worth the investment of going to that business school?
Learning to use the tools is not that hard, and there are plenty of books and free how-to’s available on the web. You’ll probably want to pick up some design fundamentals though. Does your school offer these?
good luck!
Instead of relying on a message board to guide your career and life options, consider going on three informational interviews with professionals already doing what you’re interested in.
Ask for 30 minutes of their time–in person–and be prepared with a set of thoughtful questions. You might even ask the one with whom you establish the strongest rapport whether you could watch him/her in action for a couple hours, just to get a flavor of what’s going on. Talking to an HR specialist might help, too.
Never rely on academic counselors/professors to tell you about the “real world.”
Good luck.
I know nothing about the web design field as it were, but I can tell you about my experience.
I’ve got a job which did not require any web knowledge or skill whatsoever (in the communications department of a company). But, we are doing a lot to rework our website, and I do have some skill (rudimentary though it may be) in webdesign and related apps. So, my job description is changing and I’m getting a raise and I had no “formal” training in web design, and certainly don’t have any certification.
A friend of mine went to art school. Painting, drawing, that sort of thing. He’s really into computers and taught himself html javascript, blah blah blah… he used adobe photoshop/illustrator etc in school.
Now he’s making big bucks in NY as a web administrator or something for some company.
I don’t know if this means anything or not, but I just thought I’d share.
Web design and development has become a field of specialties. It’s no longer possible to be a real “one man band” like it was in the early and mid-90’s. Back then, one developer could do graphics, HTML, maybe a little client-side script for mouseovers and some server-side code for forms processing. Now, client-side code is more likely to be XHTML and style sheets with various embedded multimedia. Server side will be mod_perl, PHP, ASP, or EJBs, all of which are relatively simple in isolation but become very complex in scale and not really comparable to the “state of the art” CGIs ten years ago. Of course, there are still many small development shops where one individual handles many things, but in general if you’re going to go for big contracts, you need to be part of a team.
With that in mind, you need to decide which facet of development you’re most interested in. It seems like you’re more on the art/graphics side, so I’d recommend some solid design training. There are a lot of good books on GUI design, but the real experts also study more fundamental (non-computer) design and art.
Whatever role you choose to play in development, it certainly helps to have a working knowledge of the other aspects. This will help you integrate with a team and understand the limits and possibilities of the entire system. However, if you really want to design interface graphics, there’s no reason to study server-side coding in depth. All of the various roles can be self-taught, depending on your inclinations, but choosing a focus will allow you to develop marketable expertise.
Business school is a whole different track. If you want to play any role in the actual development team (outside of managment or strategy), b-school is unlikely to further your cause.
And tsunamisurfer, do you really think a meatspace meeting is more productive than a forum like this? sandalwood could potentially get feedback from dozens of real professionals right here, especially if he asks interesting pointed questions. I’m willing to take a few minutes to type out a response and he can run it through his BS filter as he likes. However, IRL, I wouldn’t take the time to meet with some stranger who didn’t get a personal introduction from someone I knew, and there’s no way someone is going to shadow me or my crew for any amount of time because various NDAs and other confidentiality contracts keep us from even talking about our projects, much less letting someone look over our shoulders. Unless he already has some close friends to reach out to, it’s unlikely that anyone willing to take time for him will be as useful as the various posters on this board.
Thanks for responding guys! Well I just registered for next semester and officially placed myself in the CA program. I asked one of my teacher’s why there wasn’t any web design classes and she told me they’re planning a few for Fall!!
I still have a few more questions for you guys if you don’t mind off the top of my head…well more than just a few… hehheh
- Is it better to work for a company or simply to just
have your own business? - How much should I expect to make?
- Is the proof in the webpage or do certificates and
classes really matter? - How competitive is the business?
- Should I learn Java? (someone told me not to bother
since it’s outdated) - Do you feel the job satisfies your artistic side as
well? Design vs. Development? - Do you like your job? Why?
I’ve been debating whether to take these short seminars that my local university offers, actually they offer a certification program. For something like a little over $300 you can take a three day seminar (4 or 5 hours for a day) to learn Dreamweaver, Flash, design. Kind of expensive for a short time…is it even possible to learn all that?
Thanks in advance for the advice. I love you guys!
A buncha questions involving opinion and not necessarily fact? This baby’s staying right here.
Well, I am a web designer for a large corporation. Most of the work I do is in high-end server-side code, like C++ COM objects and ASP programming, but I’ve also done the front-end design for a number of our internet and intranet pages.
There is a big problem with getting into web design - most of the people hiring web designers wouldn’t know good design if it hit them in the face, and therefore they aren’t paying much for designers. A few years ago there were some high-profile designers making huge bucks, but the dotcom crash put some reality back into the situation.
And you have a lot of competition from self-taught people who are willing to work next for nothing. Some of these people even do really good work, while most of them produce dreck. But again, most of the people hiring wouldn’t know good design from dreck, as evidenced by the large number of really horrible web sites - even ones run by media companies like ABC.
I guess my point is that it’s a tough business to get into in a really professional way. Here’s some specific points of advice for you:
[ul]
[li]Get a minor in computing science, or at least take a number of programming courses. If you want to stand out from the hordes, you had better know not just HTML, but Java, Javascript,XML, Visual Basic, and most importantly, how to build databases. Most of the applications on the web are database driven, and yet there is a real shortage of people who know there way around it. That doesn’t mean just taking a course in how to use SQL server or Oracle, either. It means understanding how to build real world databases that are efficient and protected. You’ll need to learn how to construct relational databases, how to build highly normalized tables, how to build stored procedures and triggers, etc.[/li][li]Take some courses in web security. The real money is in E-commerce, which means you should know how to build secure applications.[/li][li]Study user-interface design. The Web is often seen as being a media like print publications, but it’s not. User Interface Design is a specialized field, and people who are good at it are sorely lacking.[/li][li]Focus on core skills like algorithm design and the fundamentals of good graphic design, rather than just taking an endless series of courses in whatever the technological flavor of the day is (ASP, JSP, Cold Fusion, etc). If you have a good grasp of the fundamentals, you can transition to new technologies easily. But if all you know is how to make Cold Fusion do some neat tricks, then when that technology is passe’ you’ll be back to square one.[/li][li]You NEED a portfolio. A solid portfolio of real, working web sites is necessary to get a good job doing web design. But I mean a GOOD portfolio. Probably the last five applicants we had for web jobs sunk themselves by presenting us a portfolio of crappy web sites that were either designed badly, or had programming errors.[/li][li]Be prepared to answer hard questions about your web sites. The last person I interviewed was very proud of her fancy FLASH web page. I asked her what her fallback page was for people who couldn’t or wouldn’t use Flash, and she didn’t have one. I asked her what the drawbacks of Flash were, and she didn’t have a good answer. I asked her how the business was going to update the pages after her contract was over, and she didn’t have an answer. She also didn’t have a job with us.[/li][li]Understand the business side of web sites. Learn what it costs to maintain web pages, and factor that into your design. Since the dot-com crash, businesses are finally wising up to this, and now the focus of web design is turning to maintainability and efficiency.[/li][/ul]
Hope this helps.
It depends on what you want to do. If you run your own company, you will spend something like 80% of your time on non-developement work (getting clients, handholding clients, bookkeeping, managment). If the development appeals to you, join a team or create one.
Way to much variety to answer. Are you working for a high-end shop in Silicon Valley or Alley, or are you a one-man shop in a small town? The ends of the spectrum are low six and high three figures respectively.
You definitely need a portfolio and you will be judged by it predominantly. Certifications can be useful, but they won’t get a job on their own.
Very, especially since the shakeout. There are lots of very talented people looking for work.
Bah!!! Never listen to another word that person says about anything related to this industry. Server-side Java (J2EE) is one of the predominant systems for deploying large enterprise systems. It’s only competitor on the cutting edge is .NET, which is still unproven. Java is also being used extensively for standard application development, embedded systems, and wireless apps.
Java is alive and well, and anyone who thinks otherwise either has their head in a hole or only reads press releases from Microsoft.
That said, if you really want to do the graphics and interface development, there’s not a lot of reason for you to learn Java. A working knowledge of its capabilities would help you know when it might help you and when it wouldn’t, but there’s no reason you need to learn Java if you just want to develop the front-end parts of websites. Of course, if you want to be a one-man band, that’s a different story.
I do coding. I work on a team where other people handle clients, managment, graphics, HTML, etc. I get to write code. I couldn’t be happier, and the key to that is finding a situation that lets you focus on the bits you enjoy and farm out the rest. Each member of my staff is equally giddy that they don’t have to code and get to do whatever their forte is. At least I hope they’re giddy. Guys? Hey, where’s everyone going?
Uh, yeah. See #6.
Micco summed everything up pretty well, so pardon me if I’m redundant.
1. Is it better to work for a company or simply to just
have your own business?
[/QUOTE]
If you are very outgoing, go on your own, you will have nothing to keep you back.
The proof is all in the webpage. One thing matters, skills skills skills. Classes and certificates are moot, if you have desire and talent. You can always go back and increase your worth via certification. That’s one of the nice things about this field. 
In these financial times, everything is competitive and the web design ‘industry’ is no exception. The web however, is here to stay, and there will always be a demand. I would imagine that the technical side of the industry would be more competitive, because coders are far more disciplined, then those nutty artistic types (me being a nutty artist :D).
I tried, and it drove me nuts. Again being artistic and not technical, I came to the conclusion that technical people are far better at their craft, then an artist trying to code. I personally see java as useless in the greater scheme of things, other then using <object> for flash files.
I do agree with Micca that it would be advantageous to have a slight working knowledge of it.
No it doesn’t, because the people you have to appease usually have no idea what they want. I can’t speak from a development point of view, but for an artist there’s definitely a lot of handholding and psychology required. The must frustrating aspect is probably clients that “want it to look like cnn.com but not like cnn.com.” Be prepared for some very vague guidelines for a job, and then be prepared for your ideas to get shot down. All that being said, there’s certainly is satisfaction in a job well done, and nothing is better the an idea coming to fruition. Like anything sometimes its satisfying and sometimes it aint.
Two minor nitpicks. It’s “micco”, lower-case, no “a”. Also, it sounds like you’re limiting your evaluation of Java to client-side applets. In that case, it is certainly out of fashion and you’re better served by flash et al. unless you need some serious client-side processing. However, these days Java is primarily used for server-side code (competing with PHP, ASP, CGI, etc.) and stand alone apps. J2EE is the server-side blend of Java servlets, JSP, entity beans, etc. and it’s incredibly powerful and useful. I know this isn’t the time or place to debate the merits of Java (any more than I already have) but I wanted to correct what seemed like a misconception or limited perspective.
Client side Java is still being used in a number of enterprise applications, but it’s use as a public web interface is waning for very good reasons.
But don’t confuse Java with Javascript. They are not even remotely related, and you WILL need to learn Javascript, because it’s the ‘glue’ that holds the various interactive elements of a web page together.
Along with that, you’ll have to learn the architecture of web pages. The document object model, XML, the differences between the various browsers, etc.
You’ll also have to learn the technical side of graphics design. Image maps, image optimization, how to use tables to build complex structures, etc. There’s plenty of technology to learn just on the client side.
But even if you just stick with client development, you’ll still have to learn some programming if you want to know how to manage state between pages and communicate with the server code.
Yes, I’m giddy! I’m a strictly front end website manager – design and content. I have a wonderful boss who loves to code and thinks that design is painfully difficult and boring. We get along perfectly. He does his thing, I do mine, and everyone’s happy. If your staff’s being run the same way, I’m sure they’re giddy, too, micco.
My answers to the OP will be coming from a slightly different perspective. I went to school before there was a web, so everything I know is self-taught. I work for a subsidiary of a very large company running an intranet website. Since many of the questions don’t apply to my situation at all, I’ll answer the ones that do.
I personally love the security of working for a company. Of course, I’m not working for a web design company, I’m doing web design for a major corporation. If you want guaranteed vacation, benefits, grievance procedures, longterm employment, and almost certainty that your job isn’t going to vanish along with your employer next week or next year, it’s a great choice. You’d get many of these things (although I’m not sure about the job security) working for a well-established web design business. OTOH, if you’re the kind of person who likes to be completely independent, and who loves risk, owning your own business could be the way to go.
The website creation business (which includes a lot more than design) is becoming more specialized every year. While it is always helpful to have a core understanding of what’s going on behind the scenes, someone who is working only on front end graphics and layout does not need to know programming language. Since the business is changing daily, my best advice is to learn those types of skills (graphic design, layout, scripting, coding) which most interest you – someone is sure to need your expertise, and if you understand the concepts, you will be able to work with the new programs as they come along.
I do only design, not development, and my artistic side is definitely satisfied. I often describe myself as an artist. There is absolutely nothing better than creating graphics and layouts based on your own imagination and ideas. Of course, everything gets passed by the higher-ups, who have their own ideas about good design, but just the fun I have fooling around trying to come up with stuff is about as satisfying as it gets. Talk to me some time after I’ve started working on a graphics project at 8:00 a.m., felt a strange rumbling in my stomach, and looked up from the computer for the first time to see that it’s 3:00 p.m. Heaven.
See above. Also, I have both job security and almost total autonomy – my boss is over 3000 miles away and has no interest in me as long as my work gets done. If you can arrange that, I highly recommend it.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do, sandalwood. A final word of advice – it’s good to plan for your career, but don’t expect it to go the way you planned. My job, which I love, didn’t exist when I was in school. There are probably jobs out there which you would love that don’t exist now, especially since you’re in a very volatile field. Don’t study anything that you can’t stand just because it will get you jobs or bring you money – the entire tech world could change tomorrow, so you might as well do what you love.
Sorry about the misspelling micco. Valid points about java, and I will be careful about what I say due to my limited knowledge of it. Actually I was referring to JavaScript (JS), and I still believe I have some valid points regarding it. I am of the flash will soon rule the world camp (if it doesn’t already), and so I see a lot of the functionality of JavaScript will not be needed. The interactive capabilities of JS can mostly be duplicated in flash, and IMHO are easier to implement and manage. Since Sandalwood is a graphics arts major (im going on the assumption that he/she is more artistic then technical) I would imagine flash would kill more birds with one stone. The best thing about flash is the ability to make a fully interactive multimedia intensive website from one program. Again I Believe that any JS knowledge would be helpful, however for the reasons I’ve stated I don’t see it being as useful as it once was, and perhaps Sandalwood’s time and resources are best spent learning something else.
FLASH won’t rule the world. In fact, I see its use fading away for general web pages. It’s great for making web games and other specialized applications, but using for building, say, an E-commerce site is generally a bad idea. Harder to work with, harder to update, large download sizes, hard to integrate with other technologies like XML, etc.
On a local note, I’ve heard that Windward Community College actually has some decent web tech classes.
Or I could teach you HTML for a nominal fee.