No I wouldn’t. You are right.
I just hate the way tipping is sneaking in here. It is being bought in by tourists and is on its way to becoming expected.
In our culture expecting a tip is rude but wanting a tip is becoming common.
And more appropriate than 15%.
Easier maths. Take your bill. Pay it. Thank the waitperson. Leave (knowing the waitperson wasn’t dependent on your tip).
Tip if you recieved excellent service.
Eh, I don’t really. I just think Realitychuck was being a knob.
Can we get back on topic here?
I’ve heard (don’t know if it is true) that if you give to these shady charities once, they list you, sell your adress to similar “charities” and you get sent more and more requests for money from more and more shady causes. That certainly has been my experience, when I made the mistake of donating money to a shady charity once.
The effect, as **Lilith Fair ** remarked, is that her husbands grandmother gets more and more worrisome mail, making her more and more unhappy.
But, OTOH, maybe donating to “charities” like the Panamfund does not make her feel unhappy, but makes her feel needed, an above-average-informed and active member of society whose contribution makes a difference. If she can feel that way for only 100 dollars a month, I’d say that’s a bargain, and it would be a shame to spoil that for her.
Lilith-fair, can you check with her where she stands on this?
If you really decide she should stop donating to this “charity”, here’s my two cents. Maybe the old lady, being Chinese, remembers all to vividly the Communist oppression and therefore she feels strongly about it and the Panama fund feeds on this. Reason doesn’t help agains such strong emotions. Maybe you need to evoke an equally strong emotion and remind her of instances in her youth how she wouldn’t let herself be taken in by frauds and con-artists, and that this isn’t any different.
And maybe you could find an alternative charity that serves the same cause, but better. How about the people in Tibet suffering from Chinese Oppresion, through Amnesty International? How about her writing letters for Amsnesty? (Nowadays you only have to sign and adress the letters, so a shaky hand isn’t a big problem). Or recommend her some appropriate hero from www.oneman.org
Finally, isn’t there some hallmark of sound charity organizations where you live? You could advise her to give only to charities with that hallmark.
No, I can’t see the difference at all. In one scenario, I give the money to the restaurant, the restaurant gives the money to the waiter. In the other, I give the money directly to the waiter. Either way, I’m paying the waiter. I just cut out the middleman in scenario 2.
Again, either way it’s your money that’s providing the income. Makes no difference whether I give it directly to them or do it through the restaurant.
Next time I’m in your country, I’ll keep that in mind. Next time you’re in my country, please don’t screw over the waitstaff. I used to work as a waiter & bartender, and I got really fucking sick of French people coming in and stiffing me because, “we don’t tip in France.” Fuck you and the cheval you rode in on.
I know what you’re saying. When I’m in Europe, I’m usually the one bitching at the spouse for leaving big tips, because I know the waiter is getting a regular wage. It is crappy here in the states where the employer is fucking over their employees, forcing them to suck up to the customers just so they can feed & cloth their children, or put themselves through school, but that’s the way it is. Here.
I also don’t tip at these ever increasing places that put out a tip jar when the employees are getting a standard wage. I don’t like being made to feel guilty that pimply-faced youth is only getting minimum wage, but that’s the way it is.
It makes a huge difference!
In one scenario the waitperson has a guaranteed income from their employer, in the the other scenario they are dependent on the whims of the customers. They may make heaps or they may make diddly-crap.
Most of us have living expenses that are more fixed then the lottery that is tips.
Most people leave 15-20% tips. I’ve never waited, so anyone who has please correct me, but I’m pretty sure that most nights, the income is pretty consistent from night to night.
Shit I have travelled enough to know that “when in Rome” and all that. I just think the concept of expecting customers to pay what employers are too tight arsed to pay is wrong.
If I ever flit to to the states I will tip. I promise.
Of course I will then come home and whinge about it too 
I don’t think that a charity is necessarily shady if it sells/rents its donor list out. I’m not sure its a good idea that they do this, but I wouldn’t convict solely on this basis.
That’s not entirely true. Minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13 per hour, assuming the employee makes enough money in tips to raise their minimum hourly wage to what minimum wage for everyone else is. If the employee doesn’t make enough money in tips to do that, the employer needs to make up the difference. Or, as this Department of Labor factsheet puts it:
That’s ridiculous. Everyone in the US knows that servers work for tips. It’s expected that if you dine out, you tip unless you get absolutely horrible service.
Just because you want it a different way doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to ignore the way society works. I’d hope that if you came for a visit you’d adjust your ideas accordingly.
Wow. Your husband’s grandmother is Mr. Pink?
Well, I’m an American, living in this culture, and I agree with calm kiwi.
And it used to be that tips were considered an extra for particularly good service, but the culture now of tips being an expectation is certainly because of the fact that restaurant owners are allowed to pay waiters a far cry less than minimum wage. And whose fault is that? The waiters’? No. The customers’? No. The restaurant industry, at some point in the past, saw waiters making tips and thought, “Hey, if they’re already making money off tips, maybe we can use it as an excuse to pay them less, ourselves! Maybe we can get the government to let us do it…” And the Govt. said, “Sure, knock yourselves out.”
If service is an extra charge, then put it on the damn menu and let people know what it is up front. I’m sure there are many waiters who prefer the current system, especially if they are working in an environment where their tips are high — it likely brings them above and beyond what a normal wage from the employer would get. But I’m sure there are also some who make close to minimum wage, even with the tips – and for those, they are getting screwed. (Because under a better system, they would be getting the minimum AND the extra, when customers tip for good service).
I also think that basing the expectation for tips around a percentage of the bill is pretty stupid. The percentages seem to rise arbitrarily (used to be 12%, then 15%, now people are often saying 20% or more. I wonder when we will hit 50%). Also, it’s biased towards people who work in upscale restaurants with higher priced meals, who will make more in tips for doing the same work for the same amount of time than the waiter at your typical everyday average-meal-price restaurant. If it’s going to be an expectation, then the “expectation” should just be a general fixed range, not a percentage. (Obviously for the average time to have a meal – the party that hangs out for 4 hours, taking up the table sipping coffee, always throws a wrench into things).
People like to argue that “it’s the service industry – there should be tipping”. But it’s totally arbitrary what kinds of “service” people get tipped. I teach at a university, so I could argue that I’m providing a service. I’m certainly not selling physical goods. Maybe I should expect that my students tip me after every class. Maybe I should put that into the syllabus. 
But I agree with calm kiwi. Employers should be expected to pay their employees. If the customer wants to leave something extra (voluntarily), the employer should not be able to use that as an excuse to lower the employee’s wages by that amount.
She didn’t say that she ignores the way it works (and it works differently in her country). She’s arguing that society shouldn’t work that way. Participating in society’s current practices and arguing in favor of different practices are two separate things, and it’s certainly possible to do both.
Seize the old broad’s bank account and throw her in the rest home where she belongs. Report all the fraud mailers to the Postal Inspector.
Problem solved.
Thats what I like to see. Real compassion at work.
Part A of this thread (The Grandmother):
It’s time for you to realise that she is not in complete control of her judgement. Sorry about that, but I have seen it with both my Grandparents and my ex’s Gran too. She’s unable to objectively consider how valid these requests are, and she is risking being ripped off. I think it is time that one of your family members took over as power of attorney, and found a way to put her on some sort of allowance- perhaps discuss the sorts of causes she would like to support and set up an automatica payment or something - then she knows that she doesn’t pay any others. But look wider at her behaviour than that - chances are other things are slipping, and it might be time for some hard decisions.
re Part B (Tipping)
Also from a country where tipping is not normal - and I find that visiting the US and having to tip grates just a little. Firstly, the charged by the restaurant don’t appear to be significantly lower than overseas, considering a 20-30% wage bill is not being covered. So there is the feeling that you are somehow paying for the service twice - and the business is pocketing the difference.
Also, the tip is so accepted, that in general service staff don’t go out of their way to earn it. we found whatever the quality of service we got, we were expected to pay the full tip - and we got some really crappy service. So I think for that reason again, it’s irritating. If the business was responsible for paying an appropriate wage, they may take more ownership on the quality of service their staff provide.
And I refuse to tip in NZ unless the service is exceptional! With you on that Calm Kiwi.
Oh come on… if you don’t know that the service in an American restaurant is extra, and it’s generally between 15 and 20%, then you’ve been living in a hole all your life. Why post the obvious? What restaurants in the US have you been in where service isn’t extra?