I assume the 16 year old was along for the ride, not planning the vacation and making promises to grandparents.
I completely agree that it was, most charitably, handled poorly by the mother to not check with SlackerInc first before telling the son. Potentially, it was planned knowing full well that there would be a conflict but, even without that, she still shouldn’t have started with the son.
I also have a 17 year old at my house and an ex, so I get all of SlackerInc’s complaints (which strike me as valid) but I still lean towards letting it be the son’s call. I know it will be disappointing not to have him with you and I know you had planned a trip you hoped would be fun and engaging for all involved so having it pulled out from under you by a flashier trip is a shitty feeling. But I think it’ll do more harm to just shut this down now that the cat’s out of the bag. And you’re going to have to be okay with him choosing NYC, if he does, because dumping guilt or disappointment on him will just make everything more sour. And it’s shitty and, from one dad to another, I’m sincerely sorry you have to deal with it.
The first few responses to the OP were rather dispiriting. Since then, a bunch of come in that I like much better. I started to reply to them, but it would have been a bunch of “yes, I agree, thank you” comments (we really need a “like” or “upvote” button!). So let me just say that I really appreciate those comments (as does my lurking wife). Thank you all.
It is far from a one-off, which is why we told her so far ahead of time, and repeatedly reminded her.
On the first question, a definite yes. On the second, I don’t know but I kind of doubt it.
Ugh, how awful. :mad: About a year ago, my daughter (then 12) was acting kind of weird, withdrawn, etc. I kept trying to get her to tell me what was wrong. Finally she burst into tears and told me her mother had told her that I had said I didn’t love her (my daughter). This was of course enraging: not only did I never say it, never even thought it (I love my daughter, and all my children, fiercely), it’s hard for me to understand why my ex would say such a thing even if she somehow did think I said it! (I am assiduous about not shit-talking their mom to them, which mostly means just not talking about her at all, or sometimes telling stories from when we were first together.) My ex has said my daughter must have misunderstood something, but WTF would that be?!? I know she runs me down to them (I was the one who ended the marriage, and it seems clear to me that she has never forgiven me even if she tries to talk now as though she is glad we are divorced).
Not true. We live in a rural Missouri town. A college town, admittedly, but one most students complain about and try to “escape” every weekend they can–a town that’s scores of miles from an interstate, even, or a Target (we do have Walmart of course). He is a Francophile like I am, and has been looking forward to a chance to practice speaking, and eat some pain au chocolat. Additionally, the Winnipeg Folk Festival will be going on while we are there, and that is his style of music (he plays acoustic guitar and loves bands like Neutral Milk Hotel and Iron & Wine).
He has recently become a huge fan of both the movie and TV series Fargo, and we will be visiting my wife’s extended relatives in that city. Not that they have much in common with the show or movie, but he still is (or at least was) excited to go there and do silly things like get photographed in front of a “welcome to Fargo” sign.
He also loves both his paternal grandma (whom he does not see very often, much less often than his maternal grandparents) and his “step-grandparents”, whom he does not refer to or relate to as “step” as they have been there in a loving role for the past decade. And they live in a place that’s a regional Mecca for outdoors enthusiasts.
But yes, of course NYC is much more exciting. Perhaps you and **manson **live there, and enjoy sneering at “flyover country”? You are **so **cool. Here, have a cookie (artisinal, organic, and gluten free, of course). :rolleyes:
This seems unnecessarily harsh :dubious: I don’t live in NYC and I can’t think of any reason I would ever want to visit North Dakota. I’m also originally from Ohio, and I wouldn’t want to visit there either
In any event, I would ask your son what he wants to do. If the “French District” and Folk Music Festival are more interesting to him, he’ll pick that. If NYC is more interesting, then he’ll pick that. 16 seems to be an age where he could decide on his own.
If I were you, I’d say “Sorry for not telling you when we were taking our family vacation, but it’s the same week. I’d like you to come with us because of (hippy reasons ;)) and last family vacation, etc. But it’s up to you, no pressure.”
Builds trust and rapport in your son, and shows you can respect his wishes and are treating him like an adult that he almost is.
Then go eat some gluten-free yoghurt at whole foods or whatever
Not to speak for SlackerInc, but statements like the above do seem to imply a certain superiority, for want of a better word. It seems to say that other parts of the country are not ‘good enough’ and have nothing to offer.
And you can’t think of any reason someone from North Dakota (my wife), or who likes it there (me), might think *you *were the one being “unnecessarily harsh”? :dubious:
You can’t possibly imagine? Really? I was responding to your saying:
This is a trip I have been excited for all year. It’s the only out of state trip I’m likely to get in 2016. (Yes, I know: FML and all that.) I planned the Winnipeg part (the default was just a trip to Minnesota and possibly Fargo, as we have done in summers past) specifically because I was excited about taking the family to the French district–my son being the best French speaker after me (or maybe my wife is, but she doesn’t use it often so I’m not sure). But I guess it’s just my “insecurity” that made me interpret your comment as “your son will obviously think this trip you planned with him in mind is boring and shitty”. Uh huh. :rolleyes:
I’d say when you are in Fargo, we could go have a beer but, even though I’m in South Dakota (the better Dakota ), Fargo is still almost 200 miles away.
I’m sorry, I just had my mind blown by the concept of being able to choose a vacation, or even possibly, to not go on vacation. This was never an option for me as a child or teenager. I would go on vacation and I would put on the smile and like it or else. It never occurred to me that someone under 18 could or would be allowed a choice on vacations. (well, this thought clarifies another facet…)
So, speaking from experience, forcing your kid into a vacation at this age will foster resentment.
See it sounds like you’re excited about it. And it does indeed sound like the type of trip a certain subset of dads would like. It does not sound like anything any 16 year old would like ever.
Generalize much? I think it depends on the 16 year old where they would rather be. I know at least a couple that would not choose NYC over the wide open spaces of so-called flyover country.
I’m not going to go that far in his case. And many summers he goes out to Seattle, which he likes a lot. He wouldn’t, if forced to choose, pick the trip we have planned over Seattle either. But I definitely think he would pick it, in a heartbeat and with great enthusiasm, over just hanging around here “staycation” style. [ETA: It just occurred to me to point out that, therefore, letting the ex-wife screw us on this would mean that we would spend all our time with him this year in the place he likes least, instead of having a week with him somewhere he would like more.]
BTW, I have driven through South Dakota a number of times but have never really gotten off the freeway, so I can’t say whether you’re right that it’s the better Dakota…
OP, I think what your ex-wife did is really shitty. But the points you made above I think make a good case for your son going along with your original plan. He’s old enough that you should be able to talk to him man-to-(almost) man and lay out the details for him. It doesn’t sound like you’re the sort to badmouth your ex but I don’t see a problem in this case with laying the facts on the table and letting him know that you told her numerous times that you had this planned. Hopefully he makes the right choice.
I would be totally pissed as you rightfully are at your ex.
In high school I was in the school Choir and invited on a trip to sing at Carnegie Hall. My girlfriend (also in choir) and I decided to stay home - people said you’ll regret it - and I never did.
That being said - nothing on that trip sounded remotely exciting.
I am much more into traveling now and New York is probably my favorite city. I love going there.
Are you able to put yourself in the same situation (as your son - not me)? It might be hard - I’m not sure if I could or not.
I can’t stress enough how much resentment I had for my parents thinking they should get to decide what I should do in situations where it was basically an elective activity.
Then again your Son knew about this trip and might totally think your trip is better.
Lots of people are irresponsible and no matter how important they are to you - if it was the grandparents - yeah she is irresponsible and maybe even did it on purpose (but I’ve done things by accident kinda like this and been accused of doing it on purpose when it wasn’t).
Sounds to me like you have four options:
Tell your ex that she knew what week it was and now she has your kid all excited and she better fix it.
Talk to the grandparents and explain how grateful you are and hope they could accommodate the situation by taking him a different week than when you guys had plans. Maybe even through in a “that way he could spend a whole week with you rather than a couple days”
Let the kid decide
Tell the kid you are going on the pre planned vacation (in more diplomatic words of course)
I have no idea really what relationship you have with your ex - or her parents are so I have no idea how that would work (but it’s already been mentioned and sounds like you are working on it)
Anyway - I strongly suggest you don’t do number 4. I remember what it was like to be 16, and to have very little freedom. I’m not sure what I would have preferred (my guess is at that age it would have been more who I was going to be with), but whatever I would have preferred - if my parents made me do the opposite - and it was something I was excited about I would have been pissed.
I’m not a dad, but I have some kids I’ve become close to - and I think if I was in your shoes - I’d be hurt if they picked something else (just being honest).
Didn’t the fact that these two dates coincide come up (when you found out from him about the grandparents invite)? Did you just keep a poker face and not mention “that’s the same week as our trip”?
I totally commend you for not trash talking your ex - I think those that do so - well - that’s just the way it should be.
That being said - I don’t think there is anything wrong with making your preference known including it was already planned (without mentioning she knew, but being honest if asked).
I’ve been really tempted to do this, ever since it came up. But I’m concerned that it would be putting him in a stressful position where he’s damned either way.
Absolutely. That’s another reason I hesitate to ask him.
Thanks. No, the dates didn’t come up. I just naturally (perhaps naively) assumed that whenever it was going to be, it wasn’t going to conflict with the one week (technically nine days I guess, including the two weekends bookending the week) we had repeatedly and emphatically staked out.
No, ever since I criticized her husband for his racist and conspiratorial anti-Obama post on Facebook, she has blocked me there, and I find it’s generally better to just let my wife conduct the communication (she is the organized, scheduling type person anyway).
Well I was being kind of tongue in cheek, forgot the smiley though. (there, i put it in this time)
In any event, you seemed to skip over the rest of my second post which I thought had some good insight. I am a father too, and my kids doing things on weekends i was supposed to have them come up every so often and it sucks.
Not as much as North Dakota does though! (smiley again!)
), Fargo is still almost 200 miles away.
(smiley again!)