OMG, and my million dollar horse stomped my gun to death!
I was a basketball, volleyball, and track star of my HS in a small town. The boys’ teams had first dibs on space, so our gym practice times were 5-7am, five days a week. My parents were proud of me and attended as many games as possible, but I was responsible for waking myself up at 4am and getting to practice two miles away (walking). I missed one practice in four years due to pneumonia. When seasons overlapped there would be a three-hour track practice after school as well.
I got an athletic scholarship to a small college but it didn’t work out for a variety of sad reasons.
So I’m no stranger to athletic dedication, but the effort I put into it was solely my decision and required that I get myself to and fro. I think this is why parental obsession about a kid’s athletic “career” is rather strange to me as a small town working class kid in the early '80s.
Aside: damn was I in great shape!!
I do too. If a kid really loves something, a flat refusal to even consider supporting that does seem sort of sad. Yes, of course parents have to have their limits of what just doesn’t work for their family, but there’s a pretty big difference between not being prepared to take out a second mortgage or move across the country, and not wanting to get up a little early now and then.
I don’t especially love getting up at 4:30 to get my 11 year old to the pool for morning swim practices, but I also wouldn’t love limiting her opportunity to do something really important to her just because I want to sleep in. I don’t do it in the hopes of her being the next Michael Phelps, I do it because she loves it and it’s good for her.
And for the record, her current club has a strict policy that swimming should never interfere with school but has still managed to churn out several Olympians, so it is possible to achieve athletic excellence while still maintaining a balance in the rest of your life.
If I had to get up at 4:30 AM on a regular basis, it would fundamentally change my quality of life and ability to function successfully, more so for my partner, who struggles with insomnia.
Just because something falls within your realm of “reasonable, not too difficult accomodation” doesn’t mean that that is true for everyone, and blanket statements about how those other parents are “sad” is, frankly, judgy nonsense.
Maurie understands why the refusal to consider hockey practice is sad. I had 5 am and 4:30 pm swim practices every weekday, and 6 am on Saturdays. My mother got up to drive me some mornings, but there were other kids on the team going at the same time, so mostly we carpooled. Same with going to swim meets. It doesn’t take a slavish commitment to a crazy schedule; it just takes a commitment to find a way to work it out.
I was never going to be Olympic caliber (though some of my teammates went). However, both my brother and I, 30 years later, are still dedicated swimmers and in good shape. All our friends whose parents couldn’t be bothered or who just weren’t interested in a sport if they couldn’t be the star… are not in very good shape. And, frankly, if I hadn’t had that structure of regular practice in high school, I would have completely blown out of freshman year in college. As several of my friends did.
So, yeah, a little sad. Nowadays my brother and sister-in-law are juggling hockey practices, cross country meets, and whatever my niece is up to nowadays – soccer and field hockey, I think. They don’t get to sleep in.
I agree with this. Years ago a friend of mine with older kids warned me about comp-level sports with the simple statement: “say goodbye to your weekends.” He said rec-level sports should be encouraged, as they are mainly developmental and fun, but once you got to the comp level, then everything changes. You end up hiring trainers, going to tournaments, physical therapy - all the trappings of a professional athlete, but on your dime and on your time. He did all that for his three kids, with regret - none of them achieved anything and eventually moved-on in life, as kids do, and wanting a different family dynamic during that time frame. His kids would have gotten the same enjoyment out of their sport even if participating at a lower lever, he thought.
Both my kids ended-up in sports that are nearly always after-school commitment. My son plays football and my daughter crew. Sure, we had to travel occasionally for a weekend meet, or a Friday game, but those events were not too far and it was not a huge intrusion into my time and my passions, either. Had I had to sacrifice a summer of weekends, no.
It’s OK to support your kids and help them do the things they want to do, with constraints that ensure the rest of the family can do their thing, as well. It’s also OK if you want to throw everything into “the dream” for one kid or the other. Every family can decide for themselves what the limits are.
Are you seriously claiming that everyone you knew in high school who wasn’t in sports is not in good shape now? Every single one?
And believe it or not, many, many college freshman do great even if they didn’t participate in a high school sport. Shockingly, there are paths to success that don’t require one to be a high school athlete.
I didn’t say those parents are sad. And I certainly don’t think it’s sad that lots of kids get involved in activities that don’t involve any kind of adjustments or effort on behalf of their parents. And yes, obviously the limits of “reasonable” will vary for different people. But I absolutely think it’s a sad situation when a kid wants to pursue something meaningful to him, and his parents flat out refuse to even consider any possible way to try that. I do acknowledge that in certain cases with extenuating circumstances it is completely impossible to accommodate an early morning practice, but you must realize that for most people having a few early mornings is a minor inconvenience, not a destructive, life-altering atrocity. It seemed a flippant, dismissive response to a kid wistfully wishing that he had committed to something he loved at an early age, and yes, I think that’s sad.
Sorry, but no.
4:30 wake up for years on end is not a minor inconvenience for most people. It’s a minor inconvenience for some. Just because you and others find it possible to work that into your lives doesn’t mean that that’s somehow the normal or morally right response. And all you know about Dangerosa is that she and her partner were not willing to make that choice. You don’t know why they made that choice, or how flippant the decision was (or not). She even says the kid didn’t really want to play that much. Just because, for a fleeting moment after the fact, the kid decides he wishes he would have been forced to play hockey some number of years in the past doesn’t mean that the parents failed to parent appropriately.
You’re bringing emotional value judgements into this that completely ignore the fact that Dangerosa or others have a different context of what the right balance is between happy and healthy parents, happy and healthy kids, and happy and healthy relationships, let alone the basic balance between work, sleep, and other responsibilities/needs that is wildly different for different people.
And, in fact, you made up all sorts of imaginary context that makes Dangerosa look shitty. “A kid wants to pursue something meaningful to him” Really? Where do we see that? All we know is that as a teen he wishes he had done it as a younger kid. “his parents flat out refuse to even consider any possible way to try that” What? Maybe, just maybe, if the kid expressed a passionate interest at the time, they might have reconsidered whether or not they were willing to get up early. Or maybe not. But again, there’s nothing in what we know that leads us to believe that Dangerosa flat out refused to consider any way to get her kid into hocky even though he really wanted to do it.
Speaking of flippant and dismissive, it’s flippant and dismissive to hear someone say, “sorry, but that’s sad” to a parent who says that they won’t get up hour(s) early multiple times a week for sports practice. You know nothing about why they made that choice.
Sorry for getting a bee in my bonnet about this, but dropping flippant insults/judgments about parenting choices is just rude behavior.
Tried to edit that after the fact to dial back the crank and the word salad, but missed the window before I could save.
My intent is not to be bitchy, and I apologize that it comes across that way.
When I was a kid, I was given a choice on what instrument I wanted to learn. My first three choices, cello, French horn and bassoon (yeah, I’m a cool kid) were deemed to be too expensive investments for something that I might or might not even stick with. I was allowed to pick from something more affordable and standard (and easy to carry), sax, clarinet, trumpet, or flute.
Turns out I ended up being a professional musician. But, I still wish I played one of those other instruments. But it’s all good.
An appropriate response to hearing that story is never: “no offense, but that’s sad.”
You’re right. I did impose my own interpretation of her response and that wasn’t okay. I do not think it’s sad when parents make decisions to maintain the best balance for their family, including an inability to accommodate early morning practices. I think it was the word “willing” that got under my skin - had she said “not able to” instead of “not willing to”, it would have seemed different to me. It just struck me more as a “couldn’t be bothered” than a “really can’t make that work”, and I acknowledge that that was unfair of me and was not her intent. I also unfairly made some of these assumptions based on my only knowledge of her from one of the first threads I remember reading when I joined this board about that same kid, which had no place here, and I’m sorry.
Well, since I didn’t say anything like that at all, no I’m not seriously claiming that.
gasp
No. An appropriate response is never “That’s sad.” The “no offense” part is an indication that the sadness was not intended to offend you and any other people with extra bees in their hats. That someone can’t go to practices they want to go to because their parents won’t take them, is sad. It’s also sad if their parents can’t take them, or if they have no parents to take them at all. It’s an unfortunate situation if a kid can’t do something they like, no matter the cause. And people are able to recognize that it is unfortunate without making it an accusation of parental failure.
does swim require you to buy $500-700 worth of equipment every year?
this stuff kind of rubs me the wrong way, like people who casually say “you should travel more.”
Yes, swimming requires you to buy lots of $ of equipment – different suits for practice (wear out fast) and meets (wear out faster), goggles (so many goggles), swimcaps, sweats or equivalent, swim bag, pull buoy, kickboard, fins. Usually the team changes suit designs every year, and competitive suits are not cheap and you’ll need spares. I think my pullbuoy and kickboard lasted thru a few seasons, though.
Totally off-topic: NOW I know what my wife meant when she said she wanted a new pull bouy (not pool boy!).
OK, back to the thread…
I should note that when my son was the age at which you start hockey, he showed no interest in playing hockey - and showed little commitment to any activities he did show interest in - except baseball. So when he was six we didn’t say “no” to hockey. We never had to. What we said was when he was thirteen and said “I should have played hockey” that “you don’t have hockey parents.”
Had he been really really excited at the idea of hockey anytime before middle school, we probably would have done 6am ice time. But he had zero interest in hockey (or basketball or football or joining the snowboard team (he is a good snowboarder and a good skateboarder - but didn’t want anything organized) or anything but baseball - we managed to get a single year of soccer out of him - and he played some golf with his buddies in middle and high school - but didn’t take us up on an offer for lessons and didn’t want to join the team) until late middle school - when it is a little late to hit the ice.
Also off-topic: pull buoy, good float. I talked to a lady who had the “junior”, and she thought her’s was the bee’s knees, too.
Ok, so the subset of your friends whose parents couldn’t be bothered, or who weren’t interested in a sport of they couldn’t be a star - they’re the group of which 100% are not in good shape? I’m just trying to clarify what you’re actually saying.
Well, it sounds like you’re blaming some people’s college failures on their lack of high school sports.
Look, I get it, organized high school sports worked for you. It doesn’t work for everyone. And claiming that anyone who don’t have an interest in high school sports, or can’t do it because of external factors, is going to have a tougher time in the future because of it is ridiculous.
No worries, and I’m sorry again if my response was a bit agressive!