And that’s why you judge people according to their individual actions. There’s nompoint in judging the merits of a “people” as a whole unless you actually do believe that character is determines by race.
Why should it matter? I’m a younger member of the board. When I was 16, a bunch of Muslims attacked the United States and my country went to war. A few years later, another bunch of Muslims launched an attack on my mother’s home country of Britain. I have two cousins who fought in Iraq. And yet, I manage not to think that all Muslims are horrible people. If I did, I would rightly be attacked on this board. It’s really not that hard. Why should people who didn’t even fight in WWII get a pass?
For that matter, when I lived in Japan, I knew an old man who had been in the Japanese military during the war. He was a translator in China and became a POW. The Americans took him back to Japan on one of their ships. He LOVED the Americans. Thought they were pretty much the greatest thing since sliced bread, despite the whole bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki thing. Experiencing terrible things doesn’t give you a pass, is all I’m saying.
This board spends so much time mocking people with “backwards”, “ignorant” or just plain wrong views about things. It shouldn’t really surprise anyone that some people have these views, due to the way they were raised, the educational and cultural background of their lives, and perhaps just never daring to question their own beliefs and upbringing.
That someone can take the time to reflect upon events in their lives or in the world and compare how they used to think versus what they think now, to take the time to change or correct some negative views they might have about something; I think that’s commendable. And I think it’s a good thing to be willing to discuss it openly; to effectively say “I was raised to believe this, but I now see this” in public.
For a board claiming to fight ignorance, I think it’s sad to criticize someone who has done just that in their own lives.
Right, so you’re talking about a religion, spread across the globe and present in almost every country, versus one specific country. That’s a huge difference.
I’m really shocked at people’s response’s here. Has no one had interactions with people of that generation? ** The Flying Dutchman’s ** sentiment is not at all unusual.
I lived in SE China for a while, as well as SE Asia and Mongolia, and I can tell you, people in general in those country have the same sentiment. Compare it to the Western view of Nazis- that is probably the most fair parallel.
Now, my friends who are in their 20s and 30s will admit being wary of the Japanese, but for those who have not known Japanese people personally, the tsunami has brought out a different, much more positive image of Japan.
Well said.
I have a different guess, and it doesn’t involve “Dodko,” which 99% of North Americans have never heard of.
[QUOTE=Amasia]
I’m really shocked at people’s response’s here. Has no one had interactions with people of that generation?
[/QUOTE]
Sure, my parents, both of whom are slightly older than the OP and the same nationality, and who would find the OP’s statements backwards and racist. Neither is the product of any sort of hoity-toity liberal upbringing, either.
And you have friends in their 20’s who are “wary” of Japanese people? Jesus, get some new friends.
This confuses me. All nations are somewhat (ok, usually ridiculously) simplified into “national traits”–John Bull, Uncle Sam, The Russian Bear. Quick-think of France and what comes to mind? Now Germany, now Brazil. We ALL do it, no matter what is admitted to here. Why wouldn’t the OP (or anyone else) “group them together as a people”? They ARE a people: the Japanese people and many, probably most, of them are proud to be Japanese. From a distance, certain characteristics are emphasized–right or wrong, for good or ill.
When one gets to know someone from Japan or England or wherever, then individualities come into play and more complex judgments can be made. But I don’t believe for a minute that anyone here makes no judgments about foreigners–and by judgment I don’t mean criticism.
The OP had a moment of insight and realized he was carrying around some rather nasty, outdated views. Truly his only fault was to share them with others here. I give him credit for his honesty, and for sticking with the thread. As for the righteous indignation from some here too young to have any clue what he’s on about, there’s no pleasing you. Stick with your delusion that we’re all one big happy world family. I have no doubt that each of you has your own unconscious prejudice to content with. Someday you’ll trip over it. If you’re lucky it won’t be in as public a place as a message board. :dubious:
Very well said. I don’t agree with the OP’s initial opinion of the Japanese, but I can tell you that such a view was extremely common among people of my parent’s generation and their parent’s as well. Doesn’t make it right or good, but it was real. He has gone from seeing the Japanese as only an enemy to seeing them as people. That’s huge. Would that many, many Americans would do the same for Muslims, African-Americans, Hispanics and LGBT.
Good point. Please deliver that message to the vast majority of East Asia, the Pacific Islands and Southeast Asia.
It’s completely ignorant to think that the effects of WW2 do not linger strongly in those areas. You can act outraged that that’s the case, but it’s reality.
Because they still portray themselves as victim due to the atom bombings while the Germans have the decency to accept (with the exception of far-righters) that they have little right to consider themselves victims for Dresden?
Very nicely put.
I notice one of the more vocal critics of The Flying Dutchman’s comments (Kyla) is CONSTANTLY blathering on and on about her time spent in a foreign country, and she is certainly not too shy about making broad, sweeping generalizations about the Bulgarians that she interacted with. (It seems like the drunken, xenophobic, anti-Semitic Bulgarians are some of her more common refrains)
RickJay and others who have come down hard on Dutchman–do you not believe that nations, cultures, peoples can have characters? That at any given time, some are in a better (by whatever standards) place than others?
I don’t see why it should be categorically inadmissible that the Japanese (by which I mean the citizens of the nation of Japan, not people of Japanese ethnicity) are a better people today than they were 70 years ago. (Substitute any nationality and any time period here–my point isn’t about Japan in particular, but about the general concept of judging “a people.”)
Well I don’t know what he sprayed the Kurds with, but we gave him lots of biological weapons he later used on Iran during the Iran-Iraq war. We also gave him the helicopters that he used to spray whatever he sprayed on the kurds. You can read all about it in the 107th congress’ congressional record starting on page S8987. I don’t know how to link to it, but if you go here and follow the link entitled “How Saddam Happened,” you can read all the senate testimony about it.
I’m aware that such feelings linger in Southeast Asia. I’m not the one who’s ignorant.
Just people people have a reason to be bigots doesn’t make bigotry okay. That often works out poorly.
[QUOTE=spark240]
RickJay and others who have come down hard on Dutchman–do you not believe that nations, cultures, peoples can have characters? That at any given time, some are in a better (by whatever standards) place than others?
[/QUOTE]
Of course. But at no time in Flying Dutchman’s life has he had any rational reason to think of the Japanese as a “disgusting people.” I nany event, I didn’t come down all that hard on him; note my first post is appalled mostly that OTHER people seem to think the same. I’ve heard some amazingly vile shit these past few weeks.
Yes, Imperial Japan behaved in an awful manner in World War II. Lots of countries have behaved in an awful fashion. Rarely does it have a lot to do with the character of the individuals who live in that country.
So if you’re aware that such feelings linger, why would you act so astounded, recommending that I get new friends?
I don’t think anyone’s advocating for bigotry. In fact, my point, and the point of this entire thread, was that the recent events in Japan are helping people see a much wider view of the Japanese people. I am sure that we both agree that’s a positive thing.
For someone to admit this transformation should be applauded, not reacted to as if their prior bias is completely inconceivable to any rational person on the planet (not to say that you specifically had the most outraged responses).
First of all, my impression of Bulgarians is based on actually living in Bulgaria. It’s not some stereotype I picked up from something that happened 60 years ago.
Second of all, I don’t think your generalization actually fits my descriptions of Bulgarians at all. Drunken - maybe. Alcoholism is rife. Xenophobic - yes, especially toward Turks and Roma. Anti-Semitic - not really an issue at all. Are you perhaps projecting your own perceptions of what Eastern Europeans are like here?
And I am always careful to mention that my experiences are not the totality of experiences in Bulgaria, and that I lived in a poor and rural part of the country, and that someone in a wealthier, urban place would have quite a different experience.
So my generalizations don’t fit your descriptions AT ALL, eh?
Then you go immediately on to generalize Bulgarians as running rife with alcoholism and xenophobia…:rolleyes:
Don’t you claim to be a teacher of some sort?
Do you realize how hypocritical you sound?
It’s gross!!!
I meant contend, not content. :smack:
Must proofread prior to posting.
:snipped:
-
You should be sorry. I don’t get how you can see why you shouldn’t be.
-
It isn’t that “outrage is compelling”. It’s that we fight ignorance and your OP read as very foolish. Even the title “My Opinion of Japanese People” is really weird. You have an opinion on a whole group of people?
I still don’t get it. Why would you have an opinion about a group of people instead of only on individuals?
I’m sure there are Japanese individuals with this attitude, but I used to live in Japan and I never encountered anyone who tried to play the victim card over WWII. The town where I lived was actually in the Hiroshima area and I visited Hiroshima itself regularly, and even there no one ever tried to make me as an American feel bad about the A-bomb. The general attitude of the Japanese people I knew seemed to be that while nuclear weapons should not be used, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were too long ago to get angry about now.
Well, actually, based on my experience in Japan, the younger folk were indoctrinated from a young age to buy the Hiroshima/Nagasaki victim card hook line and sinker. YMMV. But that also doesn’t mean that younger Japanese are responsible for WW2 either.
Talk about irony, but the Mazda factory in China is located in Nanjing. The Japanese I knew there were treated with the respect. I know plenty of Chinese who won’t buy Japanese. It’s not a black and white issue.
As I said earlier, my father is a WW2 and Korean war combat vet, as well as a protestant minister for his career. Having both a partially Japanese daughter in law and a Chinese daughter in law, and grandkids that speak Chinese better than English, made for a lot of self examination. And he loves his daughter’s in law and the passel of grandkids unconditionally. But I grew up with “nip” and “gook” as being his go to words. Yet he used “negro” like his mother because that was enlightened instead of “nggr.” And he had American Japanese Nisei close friends of whom he showed the utmost respect. So, this shit is complicated, especially if you’re 60 or 70 or 80 years old.