I like my pastor very much. He is a good man who can preach a good sermon. That makes it all the more painful to have to Pit him.
Sunday’s sermon was on the use in the Bible of the number forty, inspired by the reading on Jesus’ forty days fasting in the desert. He said that forty was often used in the Bible not as a literal number but more to signify “many,” like how in the story of Noah it rained for forty days and forty nights and the Israelites wandered in the desert for forty years. These long periods symbolized periods of transition, when a new world came out of the destruction of the old and a strong, independent people out of the slaves they had been. Fine; symbolism. I love symbolism. But then came the clincher: Had the Jews made the trip in the two weeks it should have taken them their mindset would still be that of recently freed slaves and they might have become oppressors themselves.
They didn’t? Uh, Steve, my good friend, perhaps you’d like to tell that to the Canaanites, especially the residents of Jericho? Oops, you can’t because the Israelites killed them all.
“Yeah, maybe that example was a bit of a stretch.”
A bit of a stretch? Looks more like a flat out lie, considering you know your Scripture and know that what you said was not true.
When I didcussed it with Wife she said, “The people of Jericho all expected to be kill, anyway. That’s the way things went back then.”
And that makes it better? That magically makes Pastor Steve’s statement true?
I am a piss-poor enough Christian, not believing most of the things I’m supposed to believe, and bullshit like this doesn’t help. Lying to make a point? Why not make a different point, like the forty years/quite a long time allowed the Mosaic faction to consolidate power? Or just leave it at "they used the time to grow as a people and to transition from slaves to a strong nation? Why make something up? There are enough fairy tales in the Bible without you coming up with more.
Actually, the real reason that the Israelites had to wander the desert for 40 years was so the people that were in Moses’s generation could die off. They didn’t trust in God to deliver the land to them and were scared of the giants.
As to the lying to make a point, that is wrong, and shouldn’t be done anywhere, by any pastor, much less from the pulpit.
He said that forty was often used in the Bible not as a literal number but more to signify “many,” like how in the story of Noah it rained for forty days and forty nights and the Israelites wandered in the desert for forty years.
I love it when you talk dirty! Say it again…say it Greek!
Someone please clarify Mines Mystique statement about waiting for Moses & crew to die off. I know Tha Bible like the back of my head, and I swear it had something to do with Moses almost doing it well enough to please God, but no cigar–he didn’t get to set his sandals in Canaan for…what was the reason again?
I agree with the OP assessment of “WTF?” about Israelites not being oppressors. It’s my decidedly ignorant opinion that part of the reason they get persecuted through the ages is due in large part to a Karmic debt that rivals the current US Government deficit. Not that this justifies the ovens & such, just sayin somethin about sowin & reapin in that whole Yahweh worshipping tradition.
Oh yeah…and for your preacher, see if you can put in a special request for next Sermonday about bearing false witness against neighbors.
Shall we line up the Italians then? I mean look at the razing of Carthage, Syracuse…Oh wait! Let’s get the karmic whacking stick out for those damn Mongols and maybe the Japanese…
Damn I’m exhausted, just so many ethnic groups through history deserving of a special karmic retribution to keep track of. :rolleyes:
Point taken Grey. Didn’t mean to come off as a hate speaker. Otherwise I’d have said the Native Americans got paybacks for the mastadon & giant ground sloth. Just to clear things up: t’was a joke and probably a bad one at that. k?
Uh, Abbie? That’s actually pretty well-known; it was a figurative usage of Biblical Hebrew. You can be a Biblical literalist all you like, but at least stick to the original text when you do it; God didn’t dictate the King James Version, you know.
Moses was denied entrance into Canaan by God because Moses took credit for bringing forth water from the stone while they were in the desert.
The Israelites were condemned to wander the desert until a generation died off because they rebelled against God while Moses was on Mt. Sinai getting the Ten Commandments. They created an idol and worshipped it.
I thought it was because Moses struck the rock twice times with his staff, rather than just once. Hitting the rock repeatedly as a sign of insufficient faith. The relevant chapter is here.
I don’t believe I’m about to type this - because about 3 times a month, I have to hear pretty much the same conversation with my mother…except you’re playing the part of me and I’m usually doing the pitting.
There’s a difference between lying, being intentionally ignorant, and just making a mistake. There is a possibility that your pastor just screwed up and got caught up in his sermon and if you reminded him about their treatment of the Canaanites he’d say “:smack: Oh, yeah. I didn’t think about that,” or something along those lines. I’m not sure from the OP, but did you talk to him?
If so, what did he say?
Oh, and the Israelites were punished to wander the desert in Numbers 13-14, after the spies came back from exploring Canaan and said it was too scary to go on. Joshua and Caleb were exempt because they weren’t discouraged.
I had heard that it was because he struck the stone twice instead of once (as instructed) when the Israelites lined up for water. That could be construed as taking credit for the water, I suppose, but the nun told me that it was indicative of a lack of faith in YHWH coming across with the wetness.
YYyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeah…but this guy’s supposed to be a professional, right? I mean, giving The Word is his number one responsibility, right? In casual conversation I’d forgive the mis-speak, but in a prepared sermon, delivered without interruption (apart from a few HOO-AHs & AMENs) he’s got a responsibility to get the details, nuances and inferrences right.
This ‘mistake’ puts the wrong idea into the heads of the flock and has given at least one of their number another cause to doubt his credibility. What else is this preacherman getting wrong? I suppose if God wanted to He could just strike him down in the pulpit in an on the spot termination, maybe He’s going to handle it in private though.
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99]
I had heard that it was because he struck the stone twice instead of once (as instructed) when the Israelites lined up for water. /QUOTE]
Or, maybe God is like a flakey TV. You have to bash it twice to get it to work properly.