My September 11 Thoughts

[Latro]

@Czarcasm

This is absolute bullshit. Building security would know exactly what construction was going on where, which companies were allowed in to do the construction, and who authorized the construction in the first place. There would both paper and computer records of all this readily available.

Aaand this is where the conspiracy theories really kick in.
Who was in charge of security?

[Czarcasm]

@Latro

I agree, apart from how much (nano?)thermite would be needed, keeping it in contact with the beam (at an angle?) would be something to overcome.
Plus that it would have to cut the steel, not just drip down.

But if those pictures from flowing steel 1 minute before the collapse and the weeks long continuous heat-reactions still taking place under ground are correct, we might assume that they actually overdid the quantity needed. Just to be sure.

Where is the massive amount of ultraviolet light that much nano-thermite would put out?

[XT]

[QUOTE=Latro]
I agree, apart from how much (nano?)thermite would be needed, keeping it in contact with the beam (at an angle?) would be something to overcome.
Plus that it would have to cut the steel, not just drip down.
[/QUOTE]

Since no one seemingly knows what ‘nano-thermite’ is or what properties it has, it’s impossible to test. Since that’s the case, it’s pure speculation how it would or could work…might as well say that it was magic that took the buildings down at that point. However, watch the video I linked too…they used over 100lbs of thermite on a much smaller column and did not get a cut.

But if those pictures from flowing steel 1 minute before the collapse and the weeks long continuous heat-reactions still taking place under ground are correct, we might assume that they actually overdid the quantity needed. Just to be sure.

Or, it could be that what you are seeing in those films is other sources of aluminum reacting to the intense heat of the raging, out of control fires. There are other things that can create a thermite reaction in a building that has nothing to do with CTs.

[Jackmannii]

@The_Antichrist

On comtemplating the matter, I came to the conclusion that Muslim terrorism, as practised internationally, is essentially a hoax, where they are told what to do by the US government, and other western governments, and given money or other incentives for what they do.

This is quite true, not withstanding denials from propagandists.

For instance, a Muslim-looking person told me that he was paid $1.75 to litter on the Staten Island ferry. :eek:

[Czarcasm]

@Latro

Aaand this is where the conspiracy theories really kick in.
Who was in charge of security?

That would be John Patrick O’Neill. The only problem with questioning him as to what part he may have had in the destruction of the World Trade Center is that he died in it’s destruction. Crafty little devil, wasn’t he?

[Latro]

@Czarcasm

Where is the massive amount of ultraviolet light that much nano-thermite would put out?

Dunno, but it would be inside the core of the building. That is what was keeping the building up, not the outside steel.

[XT]

@Czarcasm

Where is the massive amount of ultraviolet light that much nano-thermite would put out?

Speculations on nano-thermite from Wiki:

A Nano-thermite or “super-thermite”[1] is a metastable intermolecular composite (MICs) characterized by a particle size of its main constituents, a metal and a metal oxide, under 100 Nanometers. This allows for high and customizable reaction rates. Nano-thermites contain an oxidizer and a reducing agent, which are intimately mixed on the nanometer scale. MICs, including nano-thermitic materials, are a type of reactive materials investigated for military use, as well as for general applications involving propellants, explosives, and pyrotechnics.

What distinguishes MICs from traditional thermites is that the oxidizer and a reducing agent, normally iron oxide and aluminium, are in the form of extremely fine powders (nanoparticles). This dramatically increases the reactivity relative to micrometre-sized powder thermite. As the mass transport mechanisms that slow down the burning rates of traditional thermites are not so important at these scales, the reactions become kinetically controlled and proceed much more quickly.

Potential uses

Historically, pyrotechnic or explosive applications for traditional thermites have been limited due to their relatively slow energy release rates. Because nanothermites are created from reactant particles with proximities approaching the atomic scale, energy release rates are far greater.[2]

MICs or Super-thermites are generally developed for military use, propellants, explosives, and pyrotechnics. Research into military applications of nano-sized materials began in the early 1990s.[3] Because of their highly increased reaction rate, nanosized thermitic materials are being studied by the U.S. military with the aim of developing new types of bombs several times more powerful than conventional explosives.[4] Nanoenergetic materials can store more energy than conventional energetic materials and can be used in innovative ways to tailor the release of this energy. Thermobaric weapons are one potential application of nanoenergetic materials.[5]

And the ultra-violet hazard Czar is talking about:

Hazards

Like conventional thermite, super thermite reacts at very high temperature and is difficult to extinguish. The reaction produces dangerous ultra-violet (UV) light requiring that the reaction not be viewed directly, or that special eye protection (for example, a welder’s mask) be worn.

The reactivity of a nanolaminate can vary, possibly making it more sensitive than thermite.[8] In addition, super thermites are very sensitive to electrostatic discharge (ESD). Surrounding the metal oxide particles with carbon nanofibers may make nanothermites safer to handle.[16]

[Mr.Miskatonic]

@Latro

Aaand this is where the conspiracy theories really kick in.
Who was in charge of security?

Oh, this’ll be good…

[Latro]

@Czarcasm

That would be John Patrick O’Neill. The only problem with questioning him as to what part he may have had in the destruction of the World Trade Center is that he died in it’s destruction. Crafty little devil, wasn’t he?

Daily security was run by Kroll Associates, which was in turn owned by AIG whose CEO was Maurice Greenberg. Once nominated to be head CIA.

Yes, I got that from a conspiracy video

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@Latro

I agree, apart from how much (nano?)thermite would be needed, keeping it in contact with the beam (at an angle?) would be something to overcome.
Plus that it would have to cut the steel, not just drip down.

But if those pictures from flowing steel 1 minute before the collapse and the weeks long continuous heat-reactions still taking place under ground are correct, we might assume that they actually overdid the quantity needed. Just to be sure.

That’s not steel, it’s aluminium. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymFYBijuqJw

[Mr.Miskatonic]

Yeah, because when the CEO of the company that owns the company that I actually work for comes down and starts directing day-today business and reducing security measures I’d never see anything wrong with that and obey completely. :rolleyes:

[Latro]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

That’s not steel, it’s aluminium. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymFYBijuqJw

Not your Miles Power again. Please… your last link showed what a complete arsehole he is.
If that is the general standard of ‘debunking’ I give up.

Sigh. ow, all right then I’ll watch it…

[Latro]

Okay, slightly better, apart from his silly flowerpot experiment.
But where does he get the Nitrate from? It isn’t in Thermite, it’s in Thermate.
Bait and switch.

[Mr.Miskatonic]

@Latro

Okay, slightly better, apart from his silly flowerpot experiment.
But where does he get the Nitrate from? It isn’t in Thermite, it’s in Thermate.
Bait and switch.

Thermate

The main chemical reaction in thermate is the same as in thermite: an aluminothermic reaction between powdered aluminium and a metal oxide. In addition to thermite, thermate also contains sulfur and sometimes barium nitrate, both of which increase its thermal effect, create flame in burning, and significantly reduce the ignition temperature…

The composition by weight of Thermate-TH3 (in military use) is 68.7% thermite, 29.0% barium nitrate, 2.0% sulfur and 0.3% binder (such as PBAN). As both thermite and thermate are notoriously difficult to ignite, initiating the reaction normally requires supervision and sometimes persistent effort.

[Latro]

Indeed, he says nitrate is in thermate, the term erronoulsy used by some, there’s no trace of it so it couldn’t have been thermite.

Oh and the bit where he points at part of the core still standing, errm is that the core?
Looks more like the outside steel.

[XT]

[QUOTE=Latro]
Indeed, he says nitrate is in thermate, the term erronoulsy used by some, there’s no trace of it so it couldn’t have been thermite.
[/QUOTE]

Um, did you read the part that Mr. Miskatonic bolded? The presumption would be that if this was a military operation using military grade materials that it would indeed have barium nitrate in it. That’s where he got it from.

Of course, super-thermite/nano-thermite might also have pixie dust in it to give it that extra oomph and render it untraceable (as well as allow you to just paint a small stripe of the stuff on a column to bring it down).

[Latro]

@XT

The presumption would be…

Ah OK, see where he went wrong then.

[Latro]

@XT

Of course, super-thermite/nano-thermite might also have pixie dust in it to give it that extra oomph and render it untraceable (as well as allow you to just paint a small stripe of the stuff on a column to bring it down).

Nano-thermite is not magical, the componets (Silicon, Aluminium and Iron-oxide) are just very, very fine. Nearly down to molecular level. Which just makes for faster and better reaction time between the Aluminium and the oxygen.

[CurtC]

@Latro

But if those pictures from flowing steel 1 minute before the collapse and the weeks long continuous heat-reactions still taking place under ground are correct, we might assume that they actually overdid the quantity needed. Just to be sure.

Weeks-long continuous heat-reactions? What the hell are you talking about? Thermite contains all the necessary components for its reaction, so it happens quickly. A weeks-long heating is a sure sign of combustion that’s limited by the amount of oxygen it can get.

@Latro

Dunno, but it would be inside the core of the building. That is what was keeping the building up, not the outside steel.

The core structures of both towers remained standing for a short while after the rest of the buildings fell. You can see them in pictures and videos.

[Czarcasm]

@Latro

Nano-thermite is not magical, the componets (Silicon, Aluminium and Iron-oxide) are just very, very fine. Nearly down to molecular level. Which just makes for faster and better reaction time between the Aluminium and the oxygen.

That’s nice…but what does any of this have to do with the World Trade Center disaster?