I’m going to guess tha Gozu has been somewhat affected by his SO’s thought process involving spending. “When cash won’t do” can mean anything from on-line shopping to using a credit card for a car repair or even just simply buying stuff she probably can’t afford. The fact that he used the phrase at all indicates a problem.
I want to go on record as saying you & her need to sit down and have a serious talk about the situation, and work out some ways her spending habits will change. If she is seriously unwilling to try with you, you must run. Run far. Run with the speed of the leopard and Run with the tenacity of the bull.
Ruining both of your lives financially isn’t a minor thing that she can make up for in other ways. It’s a major thing that you will never be happy with. Also, ignoring your concerns about you lives together is just as big of a problem.
I hate to be seen as unhelpful, but in my opinion there is no solution that is going to work if BOTH of you do not change. She has to change her behavior and you have to stop allowing her to take money from you. As long as you are there to bail her out it does not matter if she has only cash, or a pre-paid Visa card or whatever. This is what will happen, I guarantee you: she will use up the cash or the card and need money for something and you will give it to her, over and over and over. I speak from experience when it comes to money management, when one partner is this out of control, there is nothing you can do to stop it on your own short of cutting her off completely. Then you have to watch her suffer and I don’t think you are willing to do that. There is NO good outcome here or any solution that will fit the guidelines of your OP. Only fighting and loss of trust await you.
She has already gone through a bankruptcy, she is never going to be able to have a financial life or any type of security if she does not change. She will always be dependent on you or someone else to bail her out. This may not seem like a big thing now but someday a time will come when she will run out of people who will help her. Do you really see yourself in this same position 20 years from now? Let the time come sooner rather than later and in the end you are doing her a favor. I will say again that you are not helping her by enabling her, you are keeping her down. She has to do it herself. You may not believe me but don’t drag this out any longer…you will find out one way or the other in the end.
I hate to be this blunt but I have to say that this is not going to end well. Someone has to step up and I am afraid it is going to have to be you. She treats you like a parent by depending on you to bail her out, so why not take the role of a GOOD parent and teach her to be independent.
Online shopping? WTF is she doing shopping online when she’s $500 underwater in her bank account, and $15,000 in debt on credit cards? There is NOTHING that you can buy online that is necessary to human existence, and when you’re that far in debt, that’s all you should be spending money on until you get back into financial balance.
And if she runs out of cash, you don’t go to the ATM and get more for her. She f***ing waits until the next time she is SUPPOSED to get cash. The whole point of using cash is that she does not have control over how she spends when she uses a card. If you keep giving her money every time she runs out, you’re enabling, not helping.
Tracking money and increasing the safety of it are smokescreen issues. The main problem is that she spends money she does not have. Deal with that first. Get her used to spending less by moving to a cash-only basis.
My sister is married to a person just like your SO. He is completely irresponsible when it comes to money. However, he is a good provider, a hard worker, and a very excellent father to their two daughters. He’s just a bumbling fool when it comes to money. He no longer has access to the checking account, ATM card, or the credit cards. He’s given an allowance. She’s recognized it’s a bit of a pain, but the goods outweigh this bad.
The best solution would be to give your SO a cash allowance. Pre-paid Visas would be nice, but they are succeptible to overdraft fees as well. If she needs to use a Visa for anything, as you’re suggesting, a Visa gift card would be the best solution:
Yes, this is going to cost some money and time. But, her spending patterns need to be stopped and she needs to relearn how to do it. The fact that she “needs” a Visa doesn’t hold a lot of water. The majority of life events can be paid with cash, and for the rare events, she’ll have a pre-loaded Visa.
Look here bub, if she’s spending hundreds, maybe thousands by now, of dollars she doesn’t have, she shouldn’t be buying anything on line.
If you’re just going to let her use your own card, you’re not helping her any. She obviously has no concept that the card represents MONEY. If she doesn’t have the money, she shouldn’t use the card. You’re just adding another layer of “Oh, wow, I just show this pretty card and people give me stuff for it!”
If she’s worried about carrying a lot of cash, perhaps she could leave some at home, like normal people do. She doesn’t have to carry her whole life’s savings on her person at all times.
Monitoring? You’ve got to be kidding. She needs a card to see what purchases she’s made on line? How about she buys stuff and looks at the receipts, or at the lessening number of green pieces of paper in her wallet.
Sorry, but there is NOTHING that cannot be gotten by using cash. Nobody needs to shop on line. She can buy whatever she wants via other means. People did it for a hundred years at stores of all kinds before computers became common. If she simply “must” (cough) shop on line, she can fund a Paypal account with a Postal Service money order. If there’s no money in the account, she can’t buy anything.
As for overdraft fees on debit cards, I’ve had a debit card for 20 years and not once had overdraft protection on it. I simply decline when I open the account. And then if I try to use it and there’s no money, the card is declined. I don’t see why you can’t tell your bank you don’t want overdraft protection. I’ve never had it and it’s never been a problem not having it.
You must really love her a lot to go through all this for her. But you must know that you’re not helping her at all. You’re just allowing her to skate on by as she’s been doing, with someone to pick up her shit for her. It’s called “enabling.” I can’t imagine I am the first person to tell you this. I hope she is worth it. Good luck.
I do not think the OP plans to try any kind of behavior change in himself or his girlfriend, judging by this post. I don’t mean that as an insult, simply pointing out that the OP hasn’t responded to any of the comments about *helping *her and not *enabling *her. So it looks like he is simply looking for factual alternatives to his current monetary situation. Perhaps this should have been in GQ, in that case.
Wow. Lots of folks ready to tell you all about stuff you didn’t ask, Gozu.
You might want to look into the PayPal debit card. You add money to it when you want, and if there are insufficient funds, it just declines the card.
I’ve never used one of these. But a friend of mine has and he said it was simple and easy to use.
Two hitches:
You have to sign up for a PayPal account with a regular card, and apparently if you’re buying gas (but ONLY if you’re buying gas??) it will just take it straight off the card you signed up with.
You have to have been a PayPal member for 60 days to get one.
That’s all I know. I find PayPal’s site incredibly difficult to navigate for some reason, but here is a list of PayPal.com pages that have “debit card” in them. There’s an FAQ and such. Again, I’ve never used this service and you should check it out thoroughly before you do, because I am a total idiot sometimes. Just wanted to make that perfectly clear.
The OP, though he very much appreciates the deluge of honest and valid good advice concerning behavioral change, already knew that a true solution to his SO’s involves self-disciplined and methodical approach to personal finances. Unfortunately, many people lack such things and the best workarounds available to me are either illegal, unpleasant or deal-breakers either for me or my SO.I shall let your imaginations run wild as to what methods I am thinking of.
So yes, you are right. I’m kinda looking to baby-proof my SO’s financial world rather than trying for the Nth time to change her behavior. I thought about posting this in GQ but I still think IMHO is more suited to this topic. The mods will do their thing if they disagree so it’s all good.
Right now, I have yet to find a suitable prepaid card. Still open to suggestions on those.
Well, there you go. If she won’t make a true effort to change, then all you’re doing is trying to slap a band-aid on the problem. You’re not helping her. All you’re doing is trying to make it easier for you to deal with, instead of rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands dirty to help her fix the problem.
Indeed. But they are all well-intentionned so I don’t hold it against them.
That’s because they designed it that way. I had to use google to find out what the different paypal transfer fees were (0.35$ + 2.9% for domestic and 3.9% for international i believe)
We all are total idiots sometimes.
As for the PayPal thing, I’ll consider it. I do fulfill all the requirements and there aren’t any obvious catches in the user agreement. Of course, PayPal is evil and I don’t trust them so I have to be extra cautious. My current drawback is that I am actively using Paypal right now and that large sums routinely accumulate on it so I’d have to wait for another month or two before I can use it as a checking account for my SO.
Heh. I was waiting for the band-aid quote. But there really is nothing wrong with band-aids if you think about it. I’ve used them plenty of times when my wounds were not serious enough to warrant stitching. I mean, sure, my SO is bankrupt, sure she’s losing thousands of dollars she should be saving in overdraft fees, sure knowing how to handle money is a vital skill in life, sure people…wait a second! :smack:
I don’t know. Part of her charm is that she is one of those few people who do not concern themselves with money. And this is money she worked HARD for mind you! (We’re talking $8 an hour RETAIL here) Not some trustfund set up by wealthy parents of some kind. And because of that, she is generous. She bailed me out twice back when I lived in Spain and she barely knew me. She partially went in debt by paying for Deposit fees, storage and moving costs needed to rent an appartment when I was initially coming to the U.S.A. so that I would have a place to stay. She then proceeded to partially support mefor a while before I started to contribute. This is the same trait that makes her tip well wherever she goes, give people (including ME) really nice presents. She went from riches to poverty to riches to poverty since she was born and she never let it affect her. She’d rather work herself to exhaustion rather than ask anyone to send her money when she needs it.
So you see now…she’s not going out and blowing her money on shoes and clothes and asking for more, it’s a rather more flattering picture. And that is why I said that she had redeeming qualities.
The THC in my system is making me more voluble than I planned. Oh well, the people of SDMB can now add another small piece of the puzzle of my life to my official biography :). I can picture it now : "And when the tru prophet Gozu (hallowed be his name) spoketh of monies, he sayeth upon thee : "Thou shall not concern thyselves with the bounties of mortal life for generosity is the only currency that willeth get you pasteth the gateth (maybe i’me overdoing the “th”) of paradiseth (Couldn’t resist ;)).
YYYuup!! Been there and done that. (From the OP’s point of view.) I stay away from women like this like the plague. Unless of course I’m looking for a short term “fling” I’ll date them for a while then kick’em to the curb when I get tired of their shit.
I’ll bet dollars to donuts the OP’s thinking: “Man, this girl is SO fun to hang with and she’s SO hot. If I could only change this ooonnnee little thing about her; I’d be set!”
One bankrupcy under her belt. Account closed because of overdraft fees. Current major overdraft fees. Having fights with her SO about her spending and her inablity to control it. Feeling guilty about her spending. Appologizing for her behaviour and then doing the same thing over and over again.
Personally, I think the best solution is to get your SO to a psychologist to talk about why she spends this way. It can’t feel good for her to be out of control this way.
Heck - I can empathize - when I’m having a bad day, nothing picks me up like doing a bit of shopping. But I can always pay my bills, my bank loves me, and I always have money left at the end of the month. I don’t think your SO is in the same boat.
Now, to your real question - one of those prepaid spending cards sounds like a pretty good idea. However, if she really is a shopaholic, and you’re not loading her card with enough $$, I’d worry about her signing up for other credit cards behind your back. Remember, depending on your state, if you marry this woman, her debts can be come your debts.
So what is the downside of not being able to use the card everywhere? The last thing this child needs is to make spending easy.
My personal advice is run fast, run far, and don’t look back. But if you insist on staying with her, make goddamn sure you never open a joint account.
Don’t banks usually have several different types of accounts? My account does not allow me to have an overdraft, but my father’s does. Also, aren’t you given your overdraft on the merit of whether or not you can be relied on to pay your fees? Wouldn’t the bank see her horrible credit rating and deny her an overdraft because she isn’t likely to pay them back? I always assumed that the reason I couldn’t have an overdraft was my credit, but I’ve had a credit card for 2 years that has been paid off every month, and even if that doesn’t give me much credit, I think because I’m 19 that puts me ahead of my peers.
Can’t she also tell the bank to disable her ability to have an overdraft? Can’t she tell them to just change her account so that when she runs out of money, the transaction is rejected?
Credit cards will in fact let you go over your limit and charge you over limit fees. Also, while the bank or credit company may stop you from going over your limit, the are not obligated to protect you from yourself by doing so.
Overdraft protection is not going to help in this case – she’s just going to exhaust the limits of the overdraft protection.
The problem with this is debits often are not immediately put through. For example, I can have $20 left in my account and go get $20 worth of gas. At the gas station I frequent, it often takes a day or 2 for the debit to go through. If I don’t keep track that the $20 is gone, I can still go to another store and spend that $20 again. Some places put debits through immediately, but not all. So even not having overdraft may not keep you from spending money you don’t have. Then you are usually stuck with bank fees too.
to the OP - I don’t know if you are going to be able to find a card that meets your exact needs. Convenience and ease of use are usually perks that come with responsibility. If you want to baby proof her spending you have to be willing to be inconvenienced.
Generosity is a very admirable trait. I just hope that people remember her generosity when she is unable to provide for herself someday or unable to retire, because she is going to need it. Being able to stand on your own feet first before you give all your money away is an even better idea. Like I said, I am speaking from experience so I hope I am not coming off holier-than-thou. My SO and I went through some really tough times and had a lot of fights that could have been avoided, and his situation was not even as bad as hers. It’s just money, but it can cause a lot of heartache.
Just wanted to mention this re direct deposit - her name does NOT need to be on the account - my rent money is direct deposited by payroll to an account of my landlady’s. My name is nowhere on the account. Per her bank, my bank/credit union and my payroll service and my employer, as long as you have a routing number and an account number, that’s all they need.