You can give them the option of knowing or not knowing, up to them.
But if they don’t want to know, then I wouldn’t randomly pick a date in the next 2 weeks, that gets into the hangman’s paradox.
I’d roll a d20 every night, and they get gassed on a natural 1.
There are many ways to kill someone. There are plenty of painless ways to do it too. Asking for a way that is quick, painless, and clean is tougher.
Further, any technical discussion of what is a minor, technical detail gets derailed by those who would use the debate to try to derail capital punishment myself.
It do recall that there have been long-ago proposals to use unannounced nitrogen asphyxiation in a “normal” cell, but this was undone by the complexity and expense. (Is it human to let a person live in a gas chamber for a week before doing him in?)
Measure for Measure has it right, killing someone is cruelty and it seems somehow wrong to try to hide that.
Pretty much ^
…which is why I’ve gone from being someone who once was quite comfortable with capital punishment to being someone quite uncomfortable with it, except in rare cases. Mind you, there are a lot of people who I think deserve to be executed; it’s putting it into practice that creates the problems.
The death penalty seems to be a failed government program. There seems little reason to spend the time, money, and effort to try to make it work.
In real life you’d just expand the panic. What you’re discussing are mock executions, which are a form of psychological torture. The kidnappers will take you out, put a gun to your head and pull the trigger, only for you to find that there was no bullet in the chamber.
Thats what would happen in your scenario, people would stay awake for days on end wondering if this is the day they fall asleep and never wake up. And even when they do wake up the next day there is still going to be severe damage.
I do agree that asphyxiation with inert gas is a good method of death. if done right its painless because there is no buildup of CO2 to cause panic. But it would be better to give someone opiates, MDMA and barbiturates before execution to calm them down, then knock them unconscious, then give them a set execution time and date.
Lots of states offer sedatives like benzos before execution, to help the inmate cope with anxiety. But they don’t give them drugs that cause euphoria or drugs that cause unconsciousness because as a society its been deemed someone needs to be alert, conscious and of sound mind when the execution begins.
In this thread, we are not talking about whether or not we have the death penalty, but rather, so long as we do, what is the most humane way of going about it.
I am against it for the most part, and would reserve it only for violent felons who are good at escaping. If you are in jail for murder, and you break out and murder someone else, then yeah, I think we need to put you down, as apparently containing you isn’t enough.
I only bring that up as it informs where I am coming from as it pertains to how the death penalty should be implemented. It shouldn’t be a punishment, but instead, a last ditch effort to protect society from an unrepentant and dangerous criminal.
How we treat our criminals is a reflection of our values as a society, and just because they have broken laws, even heinously, doesn’t mean that we as society should seek vengeance. We should treat even the “worst” of criminals with dignity and respect, as to do otherwise is to hurt ourselves.
So, it is worth considering, in the cases where for the good of society, someone’s life needs to be ended, how to go about that in the most humane, dignified, and respectful way.
I’m of the opinion that the executee should have some input into the process. Give them a menu of options, and even let them get creative within reason.
I though I mentioned that discussions of what is really a technical issue usually gets derailed by a discussion of the death penalty itself. If I left that part out, please accept my apologies.
Phrasing it that way assumes there is a humane way to kill other people. I know, “don’t fight the hypothetical.” But that’s why any discussion of the death penalty always raises the morality of the death penalty.
No, but I don’t see what relevance your comment there has.
I do think that it is useful to explore one’s feelings on the applicability of the death penalty itself in order to understand where you are coming from when it comes to its implementation.
If you are one who thinks that if you murder someone, then you should be murdered yourself, you are probably going to care less about the dignity and respect of the condemned. You may even want them to suffer as they die, justifying it because their victims suffered.
If you are like me, and you think that those who broke the law were failed by society as much as they failed society, then as a practical measure the death penalty may be a last resort, but it should be done as humanely as possible.
There are more and less humane ways to kill other people. There may be no “perfect” method, but there certainly are some pretty bad ones.
I think that you would agree that nitrogen asphyxiation is more humane than disembowelment and quartering, right?
We kill large animals, including valuable, loved large animals (race horses with broken legs, sick old dogs) all the time. We do it quickly and humanely. There is no mystery as to how to quickly and painlessly dispatch a human-sized animal. It can be done with a bolt or bullet to the hindbrain, or with drugs, or with nitrogen asphyxiation. All can be fast, painless, and reasonably tidy and safe for the other humans standing around.
(CO asphyxiation fails the “safe for other humans” test. But it would be perfectly humane, based on the testimony of a friend who was barely rescued from accidental CO poisoning.)
Yup. And the problem is that we, as a society, have decided we need vengeance. We can’t hold the person’s hand and quietly wish his soul godspeed. We can’t run humane prisons that focus on rehabilitation. No, we need to punish evildoers. Yes, there are elements working towards humane prisons, but they regularly come in conflict with the powerful aspects of society that seek vengeance. So we put people in solitary confinement, and we execute them brutally.
The abstract concept of “lethal injection” is pretty good. Maybe it could be improved by being taken orally instead of injected? (Hm… Or would that imply “suicide” if the convict cooperated, and force-feeding if not?) But the basic idea – a drug that puts them to sleep, then stops the heart – is not monstrous. The details are still troublesome, but, as you say, it’s better than disemboweling!
(Chased through the countryside by young topless cute people… Hm…)
Chased through the countryside by young tigers maybe? Tossed into a shark tank?
re nitrogen or helium asphyxiation… Do we know for sure there isn’t a “panic” reaction to low oxygen levels? I’ve awakened in the middle of the night from apnea episodes, and the nightmares concurrent are severely traumatic. Have people had near-death experiences with nitrogen or helium, and can tell us what it was like?
FYI, melatonin is not supposed to make you sleepy, just make you sleep better. Maybe a dozen Ambien and a triple scotch.
That is what lethal injection is supposed to do.
Yes, it’s a not uncommon industrial accident. With a reasonable number of survivors.
That’s why it’s so dangerous. There is no panic, there is no pain, there is no awareness that anything is wrong.
Until you lose consciousness.
People that have been rescued indicate that they were just going about their business, and the next thing they know, there are people standing over them looking concerned.
Recent thread:
Yes. I have a friend who experienced this as part of her pilot training. She described the video of her experience. She got silly and then passed out. She never experienced any pain, any fear, or any understanding that she wasn’t getting enough oxygen.
I have another friend (well, a friendly former co-worker) who nearly died of accidental CO poisoning. He was in a bathtub, and the hot water heater is what produced the CO. He described it as very pleasant, as he splashed warm water over himself, and then the next thing he knew people were trying to revive him.
He said he had a horrible headache the next day, but that’s not a problem if the person is dead the next day.
Grin! Yeah, that would likely not trigger the 8th Amendment!
But as far as cruel, I think I’d rather be beheaded than suffer “death from sleep apnea.” The nightmares are ghastly.
As others have said, the issue isn’t a “humane” death penalty. Any method of execution that has been used in U.S. history is likely more humane than most of us will leave this world.
The argument that method X is more humane than the current method that the state will use to execute this particular individual has always been a place holder argument. Throughout the 80s and 90s defense attorneys argued that the gas chamber and the electric chair should be outlawed because the state could use lethal injection, a painless form of death.
Then, when all states adopted lethal injection, the argument was then that lethal injection was too painful. It is simply an anti-death penalty argument wrapped up in method clothing.
Which is perfectly fine. Many lawyers argue on pretext, but on this board of fighting ignorance, let’s look at these arguments for what they are.