I’ll start with the observation that a lot of guys got into comics in their preadolescent years, before girls were attractive or even interesting in any way. They found comics appealing in preadolescent ways, for preadolescent reasons. It was all straight up good guys fighting bad guys in a world of moral clarity, and in which girls were either nonexistent or confined to neatly defined roles that weren’t threateningly sexual (most notably the damsel in distress needing rescue).
Even the women who pranced around in leotards that defined every curve in their bodies didn’t behave all that sexually – they generally behaved just like the guys, fighting and chasing one another with their super powers.
So I think a lot of guys think of comics as a refuge from the threatening adult world and that’s why so many of the resent sexiness in comics. And I’m OK with that attitude really. Not the resentment so much as the feeling of comics as a childhood refuge. Makes sense, though I’m just guessing about it as I never read comics as a kid.
As I’m just guessing, I’m prepared to be corrected, however.
Many guys resent sexiness in comics? This is a new one on me. I think you may be confusing a resentment towards sexiness with a couple of things; first, unrealistic body types. Pretty common in superhero-type comics, of course, but when you get to the point where waists are smaller than wrists and boobs head-sized, it tends to get a bit over the top. And also costumes, where artists try to walk the fine line between “revealing/hot” and “practical/reasonable”, and end up with Emma Frost.
I read a lot of mainstream comics. They don’t have any less implied sex than any other comparable media (like PG-13 movies or prime time television). And the female are frequently drawn with unrealistic proportions, incredibly skimpy outfits, and are posed liked pinups.
Those slightly out of the mainstream, stuff marked “mature readers” has sex, explict nudity (well, boobs, butts, and the very occasional flaccid penis), and frank discussions of sex. Alternative sexualities are also a common subject matter.
So I really don’t understand where you’re coming from.
Yeah, agreeing with the others. Comics have always been overflowing with sexuality – implied for years (and a lot more obvious in cases like Golden Age Wonder Woman and Phantom Lady), and a lot more obvious for the last two decades or so. And nobody resents it, so I don’t know where the OP is coming from.
And just like the pulps they came from, they excelled at implying sex to those old enough to get it, while being innocent for those who were not.
Is the annoyance the presence of sex, or the absence of real sex?
My favorite example, from a Phantom newspaper strip of about 12 years ago. Escaped convicts have the drop on the Phantom and Diana, who is wearing a very skimpy bikini. Convicts, in total control, in jail for a very long time, consider what to do with her - and the only thing they come up with is shoot her. :smack:
Well, I was going to post some examples of messages elsewhere on the Web that support my theory that many comics fans are hostile to overt displays of sexuality, but for some reason Google isn’t working for me. Funny, I can get on the Dope, which means the hamsters here are outpulling Google, which is fucking weird if you ask me.
I’m just posting to say this ain’t a drive-by, I’ll check back later when the Google hamsters are feeling more peppy.
Yes, Red Sonja was my adolescent chicks with swords porn. Isn’t there a really awesome chicks with swords commercial from some .com currently? I have a strong attraction to red heads too… coincidence?
The only people I can recall who were hostile to comic book sexuality are those who were hostile to comic book violence, immorality, etc., that eventually led to the industry adopting their own code of standards. According to Wikipedia part of the 1954 Comics Code stated that “Females shall be drawn realistically without exaggeration of any physical qualities.” I know my mother wasn’t particularly enamored by some of the She-Hulk comics I had but I wasn’t personally hostile towards sexuality in the comics. She-Hulk was pretty damn hot for a 7 foot green chick.
Comics have certainly gotten more sexually explicit then they were in the 60s. The Bat-line of DC comics has a few lesbian characters, the Marvel comics has a few gay characters, and as I typed earlier, they certainly draw the women in a more provacative manner then they did 30 years ago. I’m not really sure there’s all that much hostility to sex in comics among the fans.
Comics fandom has its share of those who think the default rating ought to be PG or PG-13, people who are less interested in comics about sex than superhero adventure, people who worry about feminist issues in their comics (which is very different than not liking sex, but usually means asking for less implied rape and less ridiculously skanky costumes, so they could be confused), and the occasional outright prude. I think the vast majority is okay with sex as long as it doesn’t upstage the fights, squeeze out younger readers, and/or presents sex the way they want it to be presented.
The fact is that comics are dominated by a single genre, superheroes, which is marketed to adolescents as well as adults. It isn’t about sex, and they want to sell this stuff to kids. Step away from that, and you’ll find sex and plenty of it. Comics like Sandman, Watchmen and Y: The Last Man aren’t shy about it, and they’re all very well-regarded. Every so often a work of outright pornography, like Foglio’s XXXenophile or Moore’s Lost Girls comes to the attention of comics fans, and gains some respect.
Power Girl, Red Sonja, Supergirl, Emma Frost, Zatanna, Dirty Pair, Vampirella…good grief, freaking Vampirella! It’s been a long time since I’ve seen an OP that was so plainly counterfactual. Most comics to this day are written toward the libido of a hormonal twelve-year-old boy. Look through rack after rack of any comics shop, and you’ll see rack after rack.
The case could certainly be made, however, that comics are written for a very insecure sexuality, which explains why there have been so few characters of alternate sexuality in comics, and why one of the first openly gay characters in comics was this mincing, effeminate embarrassment.
A related phenomenon is the absence of homosexuality from the Star Trek universe.
Haven’t comics always been about people with enhanced physical characteristics? The two most iconic DC characters, Superman and Batman respectively, have (1) a literally superhuman physique and strength and (2) The best non-super physical conditioning possible, plus an acrobat’s coordination, ultra-ninja level fighting skills, etc. Marvel’s Captain America was about a 4-F draft reject who was turned by experimental steroids into a supersoldier. Fawcett’s Captain Marvel was a boy who could bypass adolescence and jump directly to being a powerful he-man. The list goes on and on. So it’s hardly surprising that sexiness is at least a byproduct of this obession with the body. Adolescents are infamously concerned with body issues, skill being one and attractiveness the other, with the focus on attractiveness becoming more of an issue in recent years.
I think if you really read the comics instead of just looking at the pictures, the portrayal of sex and sexuality often are a lot more nuanced than you would assume. Comics haven’t been a “kid thing” for a long time. They’re just like movies or TV shows or regular books – most of them are aimed at adults and teenagers, so most contain more mature content than Archie does.
People ramble on about the sexy costumes many female characters wear, but what about all the skintight, package-hugging costumes on the male characters?
It’s possible that the OP stumbled across, say, a complaint of a Women In Refrigerators storyline turning up in a comic that customarily has a “Silver Age” (= black/white morality, etc.) mood and setting.
That sort of thing has caused its fair share of Comic Book Guy furor, where the writers/publishers decide to use storylines involving more graphic sex and violence in hopes of improving sales. When those storylines are not the sort of things which the fans expect out of that particular book, there can be a backlash.
I’d imagine the same kind of backlash would occur if one of the sexier comic books suddenly started showing all the women in flannel and sensible shoes.
This is anecdotal information, but when I worked at a comic book store in 2000 the biggest chunk of people who purchased comics were males between the ages of 15 and 25. We had a few who were younger or older but that was the core demographic buying comic books. The girls and young women who purchased manga typically ranged from 12-20 though I do remember one teenage girl and her mother who read the same manga and talked about the characters and plots while they purchased them. I don’t read manga so I don’t know why those seemed to appeal to women more than they did to men. Men purchased manga as well but it was pretty close to a 50/50 split unlike every other product sold in the store (RPGs, card games, etc.)
I guess what I’m getting at is that kids don’t really buy comic books these days. Well sure, I’m old enough to consider 15 year olds “kids” but then I think the same way about 20 year olds. It isn’t just the “mature” storylines it’s the fact that those storylines are often spread across 3+ different issues over a period of months, sometimes in different comic book lines, and the books cost at least 2 bucks a pop. It’s tough to keep the interest of a kid when you account for all those factors. DC used to publish a Batman comic that was based off of the animated series that was great for kids, and from what I hear sold very well, but they cancelled it for some reason.
There are some valid complaints I think. Superman, Batman, Thor, etc. are hunky men but I don’t remember artist spending a lot of time focusing on their asses or chest, though I’m sure someone could provide examples. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but I don’t think they did it as often with male characters as with female characters.
If Power Girl doesn’t like people looking at her chest why doesn’t she change her costume?
Or G. The ones who complain about sex (and violence) generally seem to want it all to be ‘I can show this to my 5 year old son/daughter/niece/nephew’.
Beyond the ones who want to turn all comics back into all-ages books (which strikes me as funny because this is the best era for all ages comics ever - there might not be as many of them as there were when the code had teeth, but they’re certainly better written), the people who complain generally complain when they feel the sexual aspects are being exploited.
They don’t always have a point, but sometimes they do (I was going to provide examples, but I don’t feel like getting into the debate right now). But, in any case, it’s not sexuality, per se, that gets these people complaining, but what they perceive as exploitive sexuality.
