I’m sorry, but did someone say “swinging female nursing students?” :eek:
I thought that needed to be emphasized.
Roland,
at first I thought this was clearly a joke, but after reading the reactions, I have this question to ask you: What do you want?
I think it is interesting that I haven’t read a lot about what you want to do with the proposition. “I’m inclined to give her what she wants” sounds a bit like capitulation rather than a statement of endorsement. It sounds to my naive little brain that you are only interested in doing this since she is interested. IMO, this is a big enough adjustment that if bot hof you aren’t on the same page it’s a no go–even if that means more frictioin in your relationship. Sorry.
Roland, you are letting the lack of sex and the prospect of New Pussy to cloud you judgement on this. Read your sentence below
You want to say no. The only reason you are saying yes, is because you fear the consequences of saying no. Anytime you feel pressure like this, you should take a step back before making a decision.
There is certainly, but a troubled marriage does not need this in my opinion. If my marriage was on the rocks the last thing I would want to see is my wife screwing someother guy.
I’ve only had one experience of wife swapping or swinging. It turned out badly. My best friend and his wife were fooling around and playing some stupid game and we got totally blitzed. In my drunken state I said we should have a threesome sometime. My fiend looked at his wife and she nodded? This should have been a warning sign but it wasn’t. ( we had dated briefly before she met my friend. )
I ended up cheating on my friend for about three months until he figured out what was going on. I have not talked to him in almost ten years, my guilt has kept me away.
The fact that my wife’s friends are nurses is inconsequential save for the fact that they will be working together. They are nice people, it’s just that they are in the mid twenties and she is in her mid thirties (plus they are single). Furthermore, having gone through about three and a half years of hell together (two years clinicals and about 18 months of prereqs) they have grown somewhat close. Couple this with the fact that they will be working long hours together downtown and I’m just saying anything could happen.
As I stated we have discussed trying this before. In fact, I think seeing her engaging in these types of activities with other people would probably be a turn on for me. Even if she were “triple penetrated” by three men simultaniously I don’t think I would have a problem with it (provided they were using condoms). Now if she ended up liking one of these guys and going “out” with one of them outside the club and without telling me (or frankly even with telling me) that would be a big problem. In truth I think her fantasies have more to do with bi experiences with her fellow class mates than sex with other men.
I probably wouldn’t do anything with anyone else since I’m not sure how she might react (at least not the first few times we went. When we have discussed fantasies about this it has always been in the context of her having sex with other guys and me watching). The place they are thinking about is called Shenanigans or something and is supposedly fairly nice with a good buffet for about twelve dollars. Honestly, with the 1500 calorie a day diet I am on I find myself thinking about food more than sex anyway.
I was more interested in what the “social dynamics” were in such a place. Would it seem like an ordinary restaurant if you walked in during dinner? Do the people say to each other “do you want some action” or are they more subtle? Do the guys who are “left out” end up playing billards or reclining in front of the TV to watch Bill O’Reilly?
The Bay Area has it’s share of sex clubs to be sure. I haven’t been to any, but they do have websites with pictures (of the clubs, no nudies.)
I know The Power Exchange is probably the most popular one in the city.
I’d imagine it’d be like going to a bar or a nightclub, except, you know, with people having sex around you.
One thing you need to ask yourself – what if she reacted more strongly to another guy than you expected? (One of the worst blowups I ever had was when I was with a couple, in their home, having sex with the wife while the husband watched. All of a sudden he got up and stormed out of the house, and she announced she was finished for the night. I later found out that she had never had an orgasm from intercourse with him, and the sight of her having a whole bunch with me really got to him.)
It’s not just the things that she does, it’s how you react when you observe them.
Most on-premises* clubs I’ve been to have an outer area that looks pretty much like a straight restaurant or night club, with similar behavior.
Inside, where things are more ‘relaxed’, people can take any number of approaches. There are often rooms designated for ‘action’, so you know that someone in one of these rooms is probably looking for same. But again, as always, no means no – being in an ‘action’ room does not obligate anyone to have sex with anyone, unless they want to.
Single guys have to be the most careful in their manner of approaching people (couples less so, single females least of all). In fact, single guys are often a problem area for a club. Many clubs exclude them; others allow them only as guests of couples; others charge them a hefty admission fee (this can jack up revenue for a club, but too many single guy ‘cash-cows’ can be a pain for couples, fending off requests – I swing mainly as a single guy, but wholeheartedly admit that most of them don’t know how to conduct themselves in a swing club).
Single guys who don’t end up with anybody may do any of the things you mention, although it’s more likely to be porno films on the TV monitors than Bill O’Reilly.
*‘On-premises’ means that there are spaces for people to have sex. At ‘off-premises’ clubs, people can meet, but have to make arrangements to go elsewhere if they want to take it further.
The reason that people aren’t eager to answer your question about the social dynamics of swing clubs is that it’s quite obvious that you have much bigger problems than not being familiar with the etiquette of swinging. If you stopped me on the street and asked me the time, and upon turning my attention to you, I noticed that there was a Mack truck bearing down on you, I assure you that I wouldn’t blithely look at my watch and say “It’s 3:20. Have a nice day.” I would yell for you to get out of the way, or grab you and pull you out of the path of the oncoming truck. Would you say “well, thanks and all, but I really only asked you for the time?”
Look, I know next to nothing about polyamory. Probably 80% of what I do know I learned right here at the SDMB. And one thing that has been a consistent theme is that in order for a polyamorous relationship to work, there has to be trust. The “rules” of the marriage may be different than they would be for a plain vanilla marriage, but the partners have to trust each other to follow rules, whatever those rules may be.
Your current arrangement seems to be monogamy. This quote demonstrates that you do not trust your wife to stick to that arrangement:
This next quote suggests that you might be willing to change the rules to say that it’s okay for you both to have sexual contact with others within the confines of a “swing club,” but that it would not be okay to pursue a more traditional romantic relationship outside the marriage.
Again, you do not trust your wife to follow the rules.
So, Roland, the way I see it, you’re worried that if you don’t go along with this swinging thing, your wife will cheat on you. But you’re also worried that if you do agree to swinging, she’ll cheat on you anyway.
Is it any wonder that both the swingers and the non-swingers among us are telling you that you should tend to your relationship before you even consider going to a swing club?
Swinging ain’t gonna cure your marital problems, but if you accept that and are still tempted to go, then go and get it over with, one way or the other. You say that she MIGHT do it anyway if you say no, but I think she IS going to do it, if she hasn’t already. My main question would be why does she want to involve you, if your sexual relationship is not so hot anyway? I think it might be time to cut your losses and move on.
To answer your questions Roland, dinner is not usually served. Drinks are the norm, and are usually free with the exorbitant cover. You may either be asked to be joined, or someone may make a move without asking. A firm “No” (if not desired) should suffice in making them stop and/or go away. Watchers and people who don’t want to participate usually just hang out at the bar or stand by the wall.
Having said all this, however, I need to echo what others have basically said: this sort of thing is something that should only be tried after your marriage has reached a certain level. A level of trust and commitment that can’t be described; one you’ll know when you find it, like falling in love in the first place. To attempt it before you have reached this plateau, Grasshopper, is simply asinine.
I was hoping to focus more on the social dynamics of swing clubs (which to the credit of many posters have been addressed in good part) and less on my personal situation since talking about my situation is redundent (and frankly boring) to many. My situation like those of all of you is unique (which is not to say that going to the clubs would be good or bad), but here are some considerations you may not be factoring in your replies:
We cannot afford, do not have the time, and frankly will not go to counseling. About four years ago she suggested counseling, and I agreed then backed off when I heard the price (about $60.00 per hour and that WAS with a sliding scale). Since then I have suggested it and she said that she no longer wants to go.
We will stay together until our son is at least 18. I am committed to this, and she is about 300% committed to this as I am. However, she has stated that all bets are off after he is out of the house.
About 95% of our interaction is positive lately (up from maybe 50% a year ago). We laugh, hug, and talk philosophy together. However, no matter how happy or sad she is her position concerning our marriage never waivers (all bets are off when Noah graduates).
It’s not like she is a vestal virgin. We met though a local “sex classified” add nine years ago when the love of my life the only girl I ever wanted to marry, left me for a man twice her age. Frankly, I wasn’t even attracted to her except for casual sex (I was buff, young, arrogent, horny and stupid and she was pudgy, smart, and obsessed with me). She had been dumped by her boyfriend/fiancee (who was cheating on her) and went on a classified “sex spree” sleeping or serviceing many, many guys. However, she hung around and I became “used” to her. Eventually, I appreciated her as a dear friend, and finally I loved her after she had my son. That love and my attraction to her has grown by an exponential amount since we met.
She never instigates sex or sexual ideas so the fact that she is mentioning (she broung it up again yesterday while we were driving home by saying “Jane is asking again about the swing club have you thought any more about it?” So the fact that this idea turns her on, turns me on.
Also, I’m not willing to compromise on many of the core issues that counseling would likely highlight. To name but a few:
a. She hates the fact that I stay up until about 4:00 AM most nights listening to the radio (Coast to Coast), studying, and posting on boards like this. She believes that I should go to bed more or less when she does. I counter that I am, have always been, and always will be a night owl.
b. She hates that I post on boards like this especially that I post personal information. Indeed, it was me posting such information in the course of a debate at The Grapevine at www.nationalmortgagenews.com years ago that caused perhaps the biggest (and ongoing) argument of our marriage. Again, I find this to be one of the most rewarding activities that I engage in and am not willing to stop.
c. I basically dragged her kicking and screaming into the nursing profession and out of the mortgage business (she had 1540 SAT’s and wanted to be a doctor as a child, but her step father didn’t believe in girls going to college). I have basically “set” the goal for us both to become CRNA’s and move to Oahu. She would prefer to just be a stay at home mom. Again, while I can’t force my dream upon her neither will I relinquish it. Furthermore, she basically has agreed to go along (with degrees of enthusiasm that rise and fall) with my plan.
d. For the first five years of our relationship I didn’t give her a birthday present, Christmas present, Valentines Day card or anything else. Indeed, she bought her own wedding ring from QVC and asked me to marry her. What has happened mainly is that she has matured and realized that she is worth more than being taken for granted by jerks (such as myself) who have failed to show her hardly any appreciation. I acted like the sociopathic, egocentric, ass that I was (and still am to a degree). In fact it would be hard for me to respect her if she didn’t have a negative attitude towards me in many respects. Allmost everyone whe has ever described her situation to has said something “why would you stay with someone who treats you that way?” My going to counseling would be like a child molester or wife beater saying to his victim “okay, I’m over the whole molestation thing let’s go to counseling so we can fix this relationship, just keep in mind that I will still be looking at my child porn.” Did I mention that I’ve made not so vague death threats to her during arguments when she has made her eventual plans to leave me clear (saying things like “if you think that you will just walk off to a happy life and leave me behind one day as a tired, lonely old man then I swear before almighty God that you are dead wrong woman .”)
The bottom line is that her normally loving behavior (did I mention that she is carrying this family 70% financially while I’m in nursing school, and still going to school herself?) if far more than I deserve (from any objective perspective) and if she wants a little bi action or strange dick then I am inclined to happily give it to her. Maybe, just maybe she will see it as a small gesture on my part to show her that I give a damm about her needs for once.
Also, for all of those who say we should just split up I would point out that I am generally lazy, of average intelligence, and only skilled in finding loopholes that allow me to be this way (such as not getting legally married and treating her legally like a tenant so that we both qualify for school finanical aid or financing our previous mortgage business with 125% loans on our home, and 100K in credit cards only to declaire Chapter Seven and lose the house in foreclosure when I couldn’t make the business work). She on the other hand is highly talented, hardworking, and will likely become the CRNA (that I dreamed of us both becoming) and earn 150K plus per year while I end of failing out of nursing school. If she will support my sorry arse for the next thirteen and half years (if only for the sake of our son) then wouldn’t I be a fool to want to leave (even if I didn’t love her which I do).
You mention that you don’t have the money for a conselor. This is based upon your one time research of four years ago and you’ve decided that now you still can’t afford to see anyone.
Schools have counselors. You’re in school. Maybe your school has a counselor. Tada.
But clearly, you have neither the time, nor the money for a counselor. But you do have the time and the money for swinging. That’s right. The money for swinging. I’m assuming there’s an entrance fee to these parties. They must be at a private location and that place either needs to pay its rent (if it’s permanent) or has rented out a location for the night. Either way, you’re paying to get in.
By the way, I enjoyed how you felt your personal situation was a non factor, redundant, and fankly boring…then followed it up with a six part essay detailing your autobiography. Perhaps this background you so desperately wish to share would be better suited for a cou…oh yes, no time or money. Never mind.
