My frustration stems from my firm belief that I don’t think we have 4 or 8 years to screw around with Climate Change Denialism. From what I know (fairly extensive research, spouse know knows a shit-ton about this, friends who actively work in this field)… We are at a critical juncture. We just don’t have the luxury of time anymore.
This (more than worries about the stock market, or whether Trump will nuke Uzbekibekibekistan for making fun of his hair) is what keeps me up at night. I see my grandchildren inheriting a global catastrophe. All because a bunch of folks were convinced that there is nothing wrong with shitting upstream, with the help and support of the guy who runs the toilet franchise upstream.
In short; We had a small chance if we acted fast and correctly - we are now completely fucked.
Aye; I think we were already fucked, to be honest.
Ever seen an avalanche happen in person? There’s a slight pressure drop or something that you can feel just before your eyes and ears register the movement. But once you feel that pressure drop, it’s already too late to do much more than scramble.
I think Climate Change is like that. By the time we realized it was happening, it was too late to do much more than try and mitigate the damage. And we were slow, really slow, to even try that.
I agree that a Trump administration will not help the situation.
No one loathes Trump more than me. I’m going to take the advice that SOS Clinton gave me, and my President as well. I’m going to approach him with an open mind and give him a chance to prove himself. If he fails, he will have no harsher critic than me. If he exceeds my expectations, I will give him credit.
If someone is inclined to support Trump–and can not on their own see how bad he is–it is doubtful any discussion from a liberal is going to help. I do think it’s naive to think otherwise. Sorry. [/QOUTE]
November not everyone but your goal isn’t everyone it’s the reasonable ones. A fact you acknowledge with your very next sentence.
But you already knew about Cleetus! Because of the nature of competition you’ve used his poor behavior to malign people who live near Cleetus and dismiss their concerns as unworthy of your notice.
For someone who is taking others to task for being meanies and alienating would-be comrades, you seem rather quick to whip out the rolleyes, pal.
I’m tired, to be honest. Tired of contemplating what a reality under Trump is going to look like. Tired of thinking about all those alt-right trolls who are jizzing in delight because of Trump’s victory. And I’m tired of watching Dems acting like a loss in a razor thin election is wholly due to them alienating rural voters…many of whom who openly pine for the days when people like me had no rights in this country and would gladly roll back the clock if it meant calling all the shots again. Right, we haven’t done enough to reach out to them. Uh huh. I’m tired of being told that I have to listen to them…and then what? Holding my tongue so that I don’t make them mad at my uppity ass for not agreeing with them?
I just can’t with this insanity right now. I just can’t. Perhaps in a few days, the sight of all the in-party finger pointing and idealistic “if only we hadn’t’s” won’t make me angry enough to tip over a car, but I’m clearly not at that point yet. And very well may never be.
As someone with an inclination towards preserving America’s environment I am worried that Trump and the people he surrounds himself with are big city types, who’s idea of wilderness is a manicured golf course. Has Trump ever visited a national park? Does he have any appreciation for the great wild spaces of our nation? Has he ever rafted a wild, remote river? I know his sons have been to Africa and shot some animals. Did they revel in the wildness of the place? Did they respect the animals they killed? Did they fly over, shoot some animals and fly back to Manhattan in time for dinner?
Do people like Trump understand why development of every square inch of real estate is not a good thing? Can I expect a massive selloff of public lands to oil companies and real estate developers?
Drunky, I usually go to bat for you because it seems you’re just glib for the hell of it, but some people are truly trying to understand how we screwed up, what to do to fix it and how not to alienate anyone in the process. So, do you have anything substantive to add in all these threads you keep popping up in or are you just here to gloat?
And on another point, jumping off what ywtf says… once we’ve listened and empathized and all that, what can WE do about bringing back industrial jobs? How can we stop the spread of specialization that focuses on computer technology? So many times when these conversations arise and you feel for the plight someone is in, they then look at you and go, “Well? How’re you going to fix this?” Because, you know, we really, really can’t. What then?
I am too. I’ve slept very little since I woke up Tuesday morning. I’ve written tens of thousands of words, perhaps more than a hundred thousand, since election returns started coming in. I haven’t eaten much; my blood sugar is very low. My use of the rolleyes wasn’t quick, except in the sense that I didn’t discuss things for another 20,000 words before I used it.
I understand that you are upset and reeling; many of us are, myself included. But your position is intractable at the moment. I’m not going to waste time arguing with one upset person when there are many more that want to figure out a way out of this mess; I’m convinced that your “fuck them” method won’t work and is a bad idea in general. I cannot dismiss out of hand half the population of the country, especially when I know for a fact that not all of them want the racism, the sexism, etc.
My strategy might not work, but I know that yours will fail.
Remember what your goal is!
I have never advocated silence or acquiescence. I have advocated actions that are the hallmark of diplomacy and what I see as a way to REALLY get America back, so that we are all on the same track (more or less). As long as we remain polarized, life will be just like this, all the time. I DO NOT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN and I don’t think most anyone else does either.
Cracked.com has some excellent articles today, a trilogy of heartfelt missives beautifully written by some very intelligent people. I like this part, [from David Wong, best:
](Don't Panic | Cracked.com)
That’s my message too: it doesn’t have to stay like this; we can change it. Not right now, but soon. But we have to work for it. We have to understand the opposition so we can know how to counter them. We have to understand the needs and wants and fear and desires of voters, so we can help them do the things they want to see done.
And discounting those voters, or half of them, isn’t going to get a majority of people on my side. I can’t ignore them; that’s what got us here. And no, they won’t reach out to me, I have to reach out to them. /shrug That’s the way life is sometimes.
We can’t stop the spread of technology. I don’t think we can bring back industrial jobs. I doubt that places like China and Indonesia will have many manufacturing jobs in 20 years, compared to today. Automation will take those jobs. Make no mistake, in every case in history: workers lose to technology.
What we can do is start planning for that. Plan for a time when most people are unemployable. Plan for when we don’t need human taxi drivers. Plan for when we don’t need as many human doctors. Plan for when we don’t have as many brick and mortar stores because people have things delivered that they ordered online. We need to shape the future, rather than be shaped by it. We need to be pro-active rather than reactive.
Humans have reached a stage in our development where we can create new technology faster than the cultures can absorb it. This is unprecedented in our history and is bound to change lives and societies. We need to start talking amongst ourselves now about what we want our country to be like in 2050 and start working towards that right now, IMO.
I agree with your last post very much. Unfortunately, I think the angry Trump voters aren’t going to be consoled by a discussion of the world moving forward on that and, instead, are only going to be concerned about how it effects them and theirs.
But who knows? I think I’ve had enough of this today. We can solve the universe’s problems tomorrow.
Economic anxiety is a legitimate concern. The answer for that is policy. How do you respectfully explain “Listen, I know you’re hurting, but blaming immigrants and minorities is not going to help you.” It will always sound like an accusation of bigotry, and holy hell, how bigots hate to be called bigots.
Just a little nit-pik: Trump won by getting the votes from one fifth of the population of the country, not 50%. And yes, they are a bunch of fucking idiots.
Or, upon further calculation, about 27% of the eligible voters in the USA
It contradicts your message. Trump supporters didn’t spend a single microsecond empathizing or understanding Hillary supporters. They needed only two ingredients:
Their candidate is the anti-Hillary (or just anti-establishment). It didn’t have to be Trump, but it needed to be someone so empty and devoid of principle that all sorts of people (whether racists or just disaffected voters) could just project their desires onto him.
Their opposition (whether Hillary or someone else) couldn’t be too charismatic. The deplorables outnumber the rational voters. But they don’t outnumber them plus charisma voters. Obama had charisma and that’s why he won.
The answer isn’t to listen to and empathize with the deplorables. They’re too far gone and always have been. Patient empathy gets you nowhere with someone that’s been listening to Limbaugh for 30 years. The answer is to get a better candidate. I liked Hillary but can acknowledge that she didn’t have a tenth of Obama’s charisma. Somewhere out there is a Democrat that does, or at least has enough of it.
Which of course isn’t to say that nothing should be done about the rust belt. I may not care about their rage, protecting their traditional jobs, or throwing out the dirty immigrants, but I do actually want them to be healthy and employed. The solutions need to be realistic, not designed to pander to their insecurities.
Bernie vs. Trump? President Bernie
Hillary vs. Cruz? President Cruz
Hillary vs. Rubio? President Rubio.
Biden vs. Trump? President Biden.
Warren vs. Trump? President Warren.
Hillary vs. Kasich? President Kasich.
Springsteen vs. Jeb Bush? President Bush.
There I fixed it for you…
